Anyone use a coil denitrator

[platax88]

My tank's no3 is always at 5ppm... no matter what i do. I skim, water changes have tons of flow and cut back on the feeding. My tank has pretty low bio load but in the future wanted to add more. Thats why i was thinking of correcting this first. My bio load today is 1 med naso tang, 1 flame angel, 5 small cromis.

the tank is a 125. I do not have a DSB and only about 100lbs of rock <-- might be my problem. I like the open look and do not want to add anymore rock

I was thinking of building a coil denitrator. These seem to be so easy/cheap to build and many have had good results.

What do you guys think? will this solve my problems?

 

[KAiNE]

I use one on my FOWLR tank. It seems to work well, I am able to keep NO3 down to <5ppm with some really messy fish. I used to think my reef skimmate was bad, my wife wont let me pour the FO skimmate down the drain becasue "it makes the whole house smell like a sewer!"

I used 1/4" ID (3/8OD), not the ro/di size but bigger at a length of about 140'. I put the coil into a salt bucket (to keep it dark) then connected it to a 30" tall 4" PVC pipe with jg fittings. There are some really good threads on this.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=221813&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

FYI - I have pipe thread taps for both sizes of jg fittings if anyone needs to borrow.

 

[platax88]

Hey KAiNE ... thanks for your reply. a few questions for ya:

did you use bioballs inside the PVC pipe?
How long has it been running on your system?
Is there anything that should worry me about having one? I know that the flow CANNOT be too slow because it will release sulfur into the water... if you get the rotten egg smell.
Also, what kind of effects can this have on my reef while cycling?

Thank you sooo much for your help!

 

[rsteagall]

Its so funny this topic has been brought up. Just a couple of days ago I was investigating the same topic. I hope some more people chime in.

 

[platax88]

Yeah i have been looking into this for a while... seems like its too good to be true. why dosen't everyone run one

 

[rsteagall]

http://2hot2cool.com/4/afishianado/afishian.htm

You might find that interesting. Anyone know how to ensure that no food or debris gets inside it converting it into a nutrient farm? Or should I not be concerned with this?

What about a design so that you don't even need a pump to feed it? A miniature overflow design/siphon should be able to feed it and into the sump.

 

[KAiNE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9539399#post9539399 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by platax88
Hey KAiNE ... thanks for your reply. a few questions for ya:

did you use bioballs inside the PVC pipe?
How long has it been running on your system?
Is there anything that should worry me about having one? I know that the flow CANNOT be too slow because it will release sulfur into the water... if you get the rotten egg smell.
Also, what kind of effects can this have on my reef while cycling?

Thank you sooo much for your help!

Yep, I used balls in the PVC.
Been running about 4.5 months now.
Not really other than not letting it stop for long periods of time.
As far as effects while cycling, I don't think there could be any except elevated NO3 since it isnt working yet.

If you read what "rsman" says in that thread, I followed what he advised. I wasn't too worried about getting mine cycled fast so i didn't follow the cycling procedure exactly. I ran mine at a pretty fast drip for 2 months (forgot about it). When i checked NO3 coming out it was 0 so i opened it wide. The water coming out is still 0.
I also went with the bigger tubing so i wouldn't have to deal with multiple coils. It seemed to me that due to my water volume i would need like 3 x 75' coils of the .177 tubing, so i went with 1/4" ID instead.

IMO - I wouldnt use this on my reef.

I dont have allot of LR in my FOWsomeLR. I need to get some more at some point.

 

[KAiNE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9539765#post9539765 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rsteagall
http://2hot2cool.com/4/afishianado/afishian.htm

You might find that interesting.

Yep... good link.

I didnt even try to pack coils into the PVC. You only need to prevent algae from growing inside the coil (producing O2) so I put my coil in a salt bucket. I did hunt down the taps for using the jg fitting. The 1/4" was easy to find, I had to order the 3/8".

 

[rsteagall]

Kaine, how did you seal your bucket to ensure no leaking? Also the design in the link I show makes sure all water goes to the very bottom and back up through the bioballs. Does your setup ensure this?

 

[platax88]

I may be wrong, but i dont think that there is actually water in the bucket, i think its just a container for the coils, which are filled with water, to avoid any light and algea growth... is that right?

KAiNE - why would you not use this on a reef tank?

 

[KAiNE]

Correct, the bucket has no water, only the coils. I just drilled a hole in the lid and used a jg 3/8 valve to control flow and drilled another in the bottom that plugged into a jg taped into the bottom of the 4"pvc. You could use any method of preventing algae growth in the coils, I just seem to have a never ending supply of buckets!

I wouldn't use it on my reef because it only addresses NO3 and thats it.
A fuge is much better/balanced way to go. If you were to use this on a reef and had a fuge as well you would (IMO) remove "food" for your macro and possibly limit PO4 removal. Plus it wont reduce NO3 to 0 like a fuge can.
Just my opinion though.

 

[platax88]

oh i see... i was also planning on leaving my fuge. I currently have a fist size ball of chaeto which has not grown at all until i added Melevs fuge bulb and now almost doubled.

So do you think that now with the chaeto growth taking off i might be able to get down to 0 ppm ... i am always at 5 currently.

If so, i would rather not have a CD

 

[KAiNE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9540355#post9540355 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by platax88
oh i see... i was also planning on leaving my fuge. I currently have a fist size ball of chaeto which has not grown at all until i added Melevs fuge bulb and now almost doubled.

So do you think that now with the chaeto growth taking off i might be able to get down to 0 ppm ... i am always at 5 currently.

If so, i would rather not have a CD

If you are at 5 now a CD wont do allot for you. I would be worried that it might cause you more harm than good by inhibiting your chaeto growth. CD is great for the FO when you dont care about PO4.

 

[platax88]

cool! thanks for your help. guess ill leave it alone, continue good housekeeping and let the chaeto grow a bit to see if it drops.

 

[Pickupman66]

FWIW, here is an excerpt of an article I wrote in regards to coil denitrators. I built my own for dirt cheap...

De-Nitrator coils are basically a very long piece of tubing coiled up inside a tube or canister with a slow low pressure flow rate. the tubing provides a surface for which the bacteria can attach themselves. in the first third or so of the tubing, you have the Ammonia processing bacteria. these bacteria use some of the oxygen in the water to turn the Ammonia into Nitrite. the second third of the tubing houses the Nitrite processing bacteria. THis bacteria uses the remaining oxygen in the tubed water to process the Nitrite into Nitrate. By this time, the water has been depleted of its oxygen content and the NItrate processing bacteria are allowed to thrive and thus process the NItrate into soluble nitrogen gas which is then expelled at the water surface of the tank or sump.

Knowing these principals, you can build a coil for under $30 not including a pump. mine cost me $22! I bought a 60ft length of 1/4 inside diameter black pvc tubing at Tractor supply Company. it cost me $.22 a foot. I then took a 24" piece of 4" PVC pipe and purchased 2 4"endcaps. I drilled 2 holes just large enought for the tubing to fit thru in one of these caps. I rolled up the tubing neatly and stuffed it into the pipe and ran the two tag ends of the tubing out of the cap with the holes. I then purchased a inline air valve (like used with aquarium air pump) and placed in on one end of the tubing so that I could control the water flow. the other end I hooked up to an existing pump with a low pressure outlet, but several here have used a 4gph fountain pump. I have mine adjusted to about 3-4 drops per second. That is all there is to it.

it will take about 6 weeks or so for the unit to become fully functional (cycle), but from what we have discovered, these devices work wonders on reducing nitrates.

Parts List:
50-60ft 1/4" pvc (air hose) tubing
24" section of 4" pvc drain pipe and 2 end caps (have heard of some using a large coffee can)
1 adjustable air valve
small water pump or tee off of a pump. I bought an 85 gph from TSC and then modified to hook up the hose. I have a good fast drip to mine. maybe 3-5 drops per sec


BTW, in service for about 2 years now and working like a charm.

EDIT... kaine. The principal of the coil shold also remove Nitrite and ammonia because of the way the bacteria function. Maybe not in the volumes of the rest of the tank, but removal none the less. I cannot seem to get any reading on my test for Nitrate. color never changes in solution.

 

[platax88]

Pickupman66, thanks for the info. So you are using just the tubing? no bioballs in a chamber after the tubing? Are you running this is a reef and have you seen any negative effect? What were your nitrate readings before the CD was installed? thanks again for your help!

 

[Big Goose]

AZ-NO3

AZ-NO3

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=CP2151

This stuff works!!!!!
I have over 600lbs of LR but could not get my nitrates down to safe levels (used a lot of prime for stress relief).

It took about 6 weeks for it to come down but it is almost Zero and I have not added anymore in two months. (make sure you follow the instructions to the letter and you need to keep a journal for each day or a calendar.)

WARNING!!!

It will harm Fox Corals and I have heard it will bother clams! but none of my Zoos, SPS,LPS or Softies suffered. My tank has not been happier.

It works by causing the Detritus to clump and increases the efficiency of the Skimmer.

Goose

 

[Pickupman66]

Plat, Nope no bioballs in the pipe, actually, the water never leaves my tubing until it goes back into the sump. Yes I have a 75g reef that is WELL stocked. I have two tangs, an angel, clown fish, large bar gobies and a good sized hawkfish.! I dont remember how high my nitrates were, but lets just say it was well out of the acceptable range. somewhere in the 90's maybe If I remember correctly...took about a month after the coil cycled to drop them. But, dont ever let this water just sit in the tube and not flow. Mine got clogged up and talk about a stinky smell. rotten egg smell. P-U!!!! just a nice steady drip and all is good.

I too dosed with prime on a reg basis to detox these, but now with rodi water for top off, I havent toughed my prime bottle in a very very long while. I went with the black tubing that way no light can get to it, hence no algae as mentioned in other threads.

I am probably the most simple reefer of the group. I dont subscribe to doing water changes and havent done one since I moved last april with the exception of having my salinity out of wack and even then it was maybe a 10-15% change. I only use auto top off ro/di water. the fewer chemicals I have to add, the better. I do dose calcium and essential elements in the form of a sealab cube, and dose buffer as well, but that is basically it.....