are stupid newbie questions allowed in here?

[digidana]

for some reason i'd rather post this in here than in the newbie forum. i guess it feels more like friends and neighbors.

anyway...we're in the process of setting up a glass 240g RR (96x24x24), we're still working on the stand. we're hoping to be able to move the tank in tomorrow. i was wondering if ya'll could post me a kind of generic beginner start up list of equipment.

i'd like to keep a mixed reef, eventually including sps and clams. right now we have a 55g going (and randy's 12g). the plan is to turn the 55 into a refugium/sump set-up. basically, like this: http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/e/sump_model_e.html

we're thinking four 250w 10K MH with electronic ballasts, and a couple actinics.

i've become obsessed and i've been reading a lot, but have a long ways to go. so any advice on if we're heading in the right direction, great brands vs. brands to stay away from, ideas on set-up, how much flow, what power heads, and just a general list of start-up "must haves" would make life so much easier.

i can't start out with EVERYTHING, like kalk reactors and wave makers...but what we do start out with, i don't want to have to replace later. meaning, i don't want to start out with cheap crap, basically. i appreciate all the help! thanks!

 

[goreefer]

Of course you can post any questions here. But don't be surprised if other reefers answer any of your questions since all posts on RC are public.
One piece of equipment that you should consider is a controller. Any of the ReefKeepers, AquaControllers, or other controllers. With a controller you can control any piece of equipment that you tank will use. The main ones are heaters and lighting, but I also control top-off, power heads, etc. with mine. You are making a substantial investment in your new system. I would hate to hear that you lost everything to a sticking heater or other preventable cause.
Just my 2 cents...

 

[ct_vol]

IceCap, Sunlight Supply and PFO Lighting all make nice ballasts, pendants and reflectors... If you're looking to spend a little more on the pendants, you can go with Lumenarcs, Lumenbrites, or Lumenmax's... 250w should suffice for you, you'll probably need 4 of them... You'll want to decide if you're going to go with Double end or moguls... Also if you're wanting t5's or VHO's for your actinics...

Ideally you're supposed to have 10x turnover from your sump to your display tank... So for your 240g tank, you're going to want a return pump rated at 2400gph or 2 x 1200gph depending on how you set it up...

After that you're going to want to add some powerheads or a closed loop system to increase circulation within the tank.. There are pros and cons to each brand of PH... So really a lot depends on what you're looking to spend immediately...

Depending on how much you're wanting to stock, I wouldn't skimp on a skimmer... Quality skimmers are important in reef tanks... There is a wide price range in skimmers... Again, it depends on what is most important to you... Lack of maintanence, frequency of water changes and what not...

 

[digidana]

i read a post a couple weeks ago about a stuck heater...and by the time it got figured out, it was 100 degrees in the tank and almost everything was dead. i had thought about it getting too cold if the heater died, but never about it getting stuck. it was a scary thought. my hubby got me a biotherm heater controller for xmas. :0)

is there really a big difference between the icecaps and lumenarcs? i've read a lot of good things about the icecaps. do you recommend double end or moguls? t5s or vhos?

we have 2 new pumps that we actually bought for a pond project that we never finished. one of them is does 3600gph. could i use it for the tank? is that too much flow? should it be cut back with a valve? i think the other pump is even bigger.

dave at cr was showing me the koralia powerheads, they sounded pretty cool. would 2 returns and 2 of the koralia 1200gph do it?

as far as the skimmer goes, what do you recommend. i read a little about bubble king, and was checking out a chart in the lighting and equipment forum, but don't really know what i'm looking at. we just have a seaclone 100 on the 55. would running 2 smaller ones work, or should i get just 1 good one. richard (the husband) doesn't want to see the one we have go to waste and says that if we ran 2 smaller ones, that if one died, we would at least still have one going til we got another. good idea or bad? i'm leaning towards the one big good one.

thanks!

 

[reeflover101]

i would go with 15,000-20,000 mh 10,000 make it appear yellow but that just a thought

 

[ct_vol]

The Ice Cap pendants are nice, but the Lumenarcs give you a broader coverage area... They are both on the high end in terms of quality, so you should be good no matter which direction you decide to go in...

Moguls Vs DE you could debate till you're blue in the face... A lot depends on what bulb you are wanting to run, and which color spectrum you are trying to achieve... There is a big difference between a 10k Current bulb and a 10k Hamilton bulb... As well as a 14k Phoenix and 12k Reeflux...

t5's seem to be the latest and greatest thing... They use less energy and last longer... You need to buy individual reflectors with t5's though... VHO's have internal reflectors... A lot of people prefer the look of VHO actinics over t5 actinics... They say the colors "pop" more under VHO's...

I know a lot of people that run pond pumps as their returns... 3600 gph shouldn't be too much... So long as your return rate doesn't exceed your overflows rate of drain to the sump you're fine... If you have too fast of a return pump, you can pump all the water from your sump into your display tank before it has a chance to drain and there by overflowing your display tank all over the floor... Restricting the output on the pump isn't really the best thing for the pump... It tends to shorten the life of the pump and can increase the heat output...

Stuck heaters can be a problem... The way to get around it is by using a full aquarium controller (Neptune, Reefkeeper, etc) as Garry suggested, or buy purchasing a temperature controller (less expensive but only controls temp)... Controllers can keep your tank's temperature more consistant... They turn on/off within .1 or .2 degrees, if you depend on the on/off switch in a heater there can be a 1 to 2 degree difference...

You'll need more flow in your tank besides 2 koralias... But it doesn't all have to come at once... You can add more PH's as you increase your bioload... Circulation is important to carry food/nutrients to your corals, and to keep extra nutrients/poop in the water column so that your skimmer can take it out... If the nutrients/poop has a chance to settle, it can increase ammonia/nitrites/nitrates/phosphates in your water...

IMO the SeaClone is an inferior product... There are many other manufacturers that put out more efficient skimmers... Bubble king is up there in terms of quality, but it all depends on how much you are wanting to spend and what type of skimmer you are wanting... The main types of skimmers are Beckett, Down Draft, and Venturi skimmers... There are pros and cons to all... And there is a wide difference between the best and worst Venturi skimmers...

 

[digidana]

jeez, randy, thanks a lot, now i'm even MORE confused! hahaha

i thought i was getting a handle on the lighting issue, but now i'm back to being clueless. how is a person supposed to be able to pick what kind of bulb they like unless they see tanks under all the different ones?? as far as the spectrum...i'd want the most natural looking light. what bulbs look most like the light of a shallow reef?

i gotcha on the pump issue. yeah, draining 240 gallons onto the dining room floor might be a problem. is there some sort of calculation you can for width of plumbing/bulkheads, size of sump, pump speed? or is it just a hook it up, watch it, and be prepared to turn it off real quick, thing?

the big controller might have to be a "later-on" thing...but we do have the heater controller.

as far as the flow, i'm figuring that the pond pump will have some pretty good pressure blowing back up through the tank through 2 return nozzles (is that the right term?) about a foot in from each end on the back of the tank, then add the two koralinas set on the back about spread out between the two return nozzles. will that not work? do i need more PHs? would it be better to go with a wave maker?

i figured seaclone was a crap brand...we just picked it up at petsmart. it was the only thing they had. we got it before we knew better. i want to spend as little as possible for the best quality. :0) what kind of skimmers do you run?

thanks for all the info, i really really appreciate it!

btw, it rained on my tank paint job last night. i get to start all over again today. dang!

what's everybody doing for new years? wanna come to a tank moving party? i'll buy the beer! haha

 

[imsqueak]

Pumps, something to consider: a) heat from submersible return pumps and noise from external pumps. I set up my 300, got it fully plumbed and realized within a week that I could not accept the amount of noise from the pumps. Ended up cutting a hole thru the wall and taking over half the laundry room.

There is a calculator on RC's home page that will allow you to calculate your drain capability as well as your head loss on your return. Scroll up and click home, then scroll down and on the left will be some handy calculators.

 

[imsqueak]

Oh, if you havent already re-painted it, going from a light blue at top to a deep blue at bottom looks really cool.

 

[fishdoc11]

I've been meaning to chime in here but haven't had the time to write a couple of paragraphs
For pictures of a tank under different bulbs try http://www.cnidarianreef.com and click on 250 watt metal halide testing. When looking keep in mind that when lit by higher K bulbs the tank doesn't look as blue in person as it does in the pictures. I will chime in more later.
Chris

 

[ct_vol]

Dana~ If you didn't have your tank last time, I would have made you come over... As Chris said, typically the higher the K rating, the bluer the bulb... Some people like a bluer hue to their tanks, where as others don't... Arguments are made that a whiter spectrum has better growth rates, where as a bluer spectrum brings out better coloration...

People have success with all sorts of set ups, so a lot has to do with personal preference... So if I seem like I'm fence sitting, its because I'm trying to show you the pros and cons of both sides...

I have a Deltec and two H&S skimmers, and then a Remora on my 24g nano tank...

As far as best bang for the cheaper buck, I like ASM skimmers, but I am skeptical about their ratings, bigger is definately better with them... I have also heard good things about Octopus and DAS skimmers, but do not have any experience with these...

Won't be able to help you New Year's... Too much football/drinking to do... LMK if you need help later though...

 

[digidana]

i don't think pump noise will be a problem...there is a huge workshop under the dining room, so all of the equipment will be down there....thank goodness. thanks for the tip on the calculators! i'll check that out when i get a sec.

we cleared a spot in the garage so we could back the truck in, and i ended up having to wipe off the original coat of paint and start over. i've been waiting for it to dry all day. that does sound really cool...starting from light and fading to dark...but its too late. dang. i'm painting it a really really dark blue. dave at cr said that black makes things pop, and blue gives depth, so i was trying to get somewhere inbetween. we'll see...if the sucker ever dries!

that MH site is very cool! at first skim through, i kinda like the looks of the blueline, sun 10K, ushio, or xm10K. they seem to look more natural, the others seem TOO blue. i can't believe there is such a difference. i don't know if helps tho, if it looks different in person.

i've seen a lot of talk about the octopus skimmers too...what does the needle thing mean? thanks!

 

[GPhiAce]

Sounds like you have plenty of help planning and getting things started. I am a newbie too, and only have a 2 year old 29g. I have a little advice to give. Make sure you take the advice being given- wish I would have found threads like this when I was getting started. Glad to see that you are taking as much time as you have researching equipment. Remember that you can look around to others on here for equipment too- that has helped me alot. when it comes time to add livestock, you will save alot of money if you do the same researching and getting it from fellow reefers. Make sure you get enough live rock when it is time. Someone once told me a lb per gallon. So far, i have 40 lbs in my 29, and I want a little more, and I still have plenty of room for the fish that I have. Just a few comments from the newbie peanut gallery.

 

[GPhiAce]

And one more thing. have you considered yoru RO system???

 

[digidana]

thanks! there is so much to learn, that i feel much safer double checking with everybody in here to make sure i'm not making a dumb decision with equipment.

i have been looking at ro/di systems. but do i really really need one? i'm on a well, and i got my 55 going on well water before i even knew what a ro/di was. its been going since september and i've not had any trouble. i do have green algae on my rocks, but i think that's because i have crap equipment. its not hair algae or bubble...the rocks are just green. i've been told that if the sw tests (ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, etc.) run ok on my well water, then it should be fine. i ran the tests, and its clean. i know metals and all that don't show up on the test kit, but if i had metals in the water, the fish i have now, would be dead, right? or no? thanks!

 

[GPhiAce]

Personally-- I began with using tap water, but i tested it with a few different kits for PO3, NO3, NO2, pH, NH4, Ca and I. I found that everything was within limits. I used that water for everything, and I was OK. For the past 3 months, I have been using RO water, and everything looks better. The water is clear, corals are opening bigger, and the fish look happier. I think it made a big difference with my tank. I am planning a larger future tank, and an RO system is definetely in the plans. I am not sure if it is a must have to begin with, but I definetely suggest it. I am sure that the more experienced reefers have something to say.

 

[imsqueak]

IMO RO/DI is a necessity.

 

[goreefer]

I agree with Squeak. A RO/DI unit is a BASIC piece of equipment that EVERY Reefer should have.
It doesn't matter where your water comes from, it's still going to need to be filtered.