Attention WV PET OWNERS

Look I know there are people out there who mistreat animals. But that doesn't mean we need a law to regulate them. It just means that the laws we already have should be better enforced. Once they get the inch they want here it is much easier to get the mile next time.

It is just that I for one am very tired of giving up my rights. I see more and more taken everyday. I just get tired of it.
 
Ron,why do you choose to write in blue sometimes?


If it's in blue it usually reflects an official or professional response, idea, stance, information, point of view etc. When it's not that important or a personal statement I will use regular font.

Like I said my whole thing is a message should not be thrown out simply because of where it came from. Case in point: An asteroid is heading for the earth (which it might be), and is reported by a UFO/conspiracy website(which it was). The base information (the asteroid), is the relevant part of the story not the hype which both sides play up or down to their particular advantage. It makes no difference if the story originated on the conspiracy site or CNN or NASA (which it eventually did). The point is there is some truth the the matter in both cases and any "truth" should be examined and scrutinized not just thrown aside because we think it can't happen here.

BTW: As for the avian influenza scenario, seems I remember a clip from CNN a few months back in which EVERY single bird in a village was dragged the street and slaughtered even peoples per birds were destroyed.

Yes, it can happen here this is not the same world you grew up in, things have changed, some for better, some for worse. Change happens but we all need to be vigilant on those changes and keep one eye open at all times at least.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9356409#post9356409 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by firefish2020

Like I said my whole thing is a message should not be thrown out simply because of where it came from. Case in point: An asteroid is heading for the earth (which it might be), and is reported by a UFO/conspiracy website(which it was). The base information (the asteroid), is the relevant part of the story not the hype which both sides play up or down to their particular advantage. It makes no difference if the story originated on the conspiracy site or CNN or NASA (which it eventually did). The point is there is some truth the the matter in both cases and any "truth" should be examined and scrutinized not just thrown aside because we think it can't happen here.

BTW: As for the avian influenza scenario, seems I remember a clip from CNN a few months back in which EVERY single bird in a village was dragged the street and slaughtered even peoples per birds were destroyed.

Yes, it can happen here this is not the same world you grew up in, things have changed, some for better, some for worse. Change happens but we all need to be vigilant on those changes and keep one eye open at all times at least.


Well said, Ron.
 
I like to avoid these kinds of threads as well Phil but I have to jump in here and say enough. Why are we creating a new board adding people to this board and there by spending more of the states dollars and even futher straining the retirement program, health program etc etc that are already so far in the red it will take years to fix. This is more red tape that will raise consumer prices and burden the people of this state even more. If it's truly about the breeding and import of animals isn't that covered already by the department of Agriculture?
 
Don't think I'm not paying attention just because I have not posted. I've said it before and I'll say it over and over until I DIE! The gov't should NEVER create a law prohibiting an individual from doing something that does not directly interfere with someone else's rights to life, liberty, or property through force or fraud. How DARE these POMPOUS MORONS in the legislature assume they know what kind of PET I can or cannot have, that I need to REGISTER my pets with the great and wonderful all-knowing cradle-to-grave protect-us-all-from-ourselves government! Screw these idiots!

Just another example of the gov't getting too big for its breeches! Protect my rights and property and STOP RIGHT THERE! Jackasses! Fools! Self-important bureaucratic dip sh****!

Stuff like this REALLY TICKS ME OFF! I'm sick and tired of these gov't morons assuming they know everything about everything and that EVERYTHING needs to be REGULATED or CONTROLLED by THEM! They are FAR TOO STUPID to assume that task.

Are we to believe that the Kanawha River will be over run with schools of piranha or discarded alligators? Are they afraid that our freshwater lakes will be overgrown with exotic corals from the Red Sea? They probably do because they are too stupid to understand that corals will not live in FW, and alligators and piranha are unlikely to survive a harsh WV winter and if they did it would be unlikely that any sort of breeding population could be established. (Yes, I have heard the rumors and campfire stories and I have yet to see any proof of piranha in the New River or the Charleston PD capturing an alligator in the Kanawha River by a warm-water discharge from a chemical plant. I think its BS)

If ANY of these IDIOTS vote "yes"-- vote them out of office as soon as possible and expose their idiocy in order to embarass them every time you can! I have had enough of this stupidity.

The government is like a rabid wild boar. When it gets too big or too brave, you have to grab a bat and beat it down before it gores you. Politicians like that are jerks! Banana banana banana banana banana banana jerks!

I hope I have not left any doubt as to how I feel on this issue, but just in case:
:mad2: :mad2: :mad2:
 
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9367387#post9367387 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by H.crispa
Don't think I'm not paying attention just because I have not posted. I've said it before and I'll say it over and over until I DIE! The gov't should NEVER create a law prohibiting an individual from doing something that does not directly interfere with someone else's rights to life, liberty, or property through force or fraud. How DARE these POMPOUS MORONS in the legislature assume they know what kind of PET I can or cannot have, that I need to REGISTER my pets with the great and wonderful all-knowing cradle-to-grave protect-us-all-from-ourselves government! Screw these idiots!

Just another example of the gov't getting too big for its breeches! Protect my rights and property and STOP RIGHT THERE! Jackasses! Fools! Self-important bureaucratic dip sh****!

Stuff like this REALLY TICKS ME OFF! I'm sick and tired of these gov't morons assuming they know everything about everything and that EVERYTHING needs to be REGULATED or CONTROLLED by THEM! They are FAR TOO STUPID to assume that task.

Are we to believe that the Kanawha River will be over run with schools of piranha or discarded alligators? Are they afraid that our freshwater lakes will be overgrown with exotic corals from the Red Sea? They probably do because they are too stupid to understand that corals will not live in FW, and alligators and piranha are unlikely to survive a harsh WV winter and if they did it would be unlikely that any sort of breeding population could be established. (Yes, I have heard the rumors and campfire stories and I have yet to see any proof of piranha in the New River or the Charleston PD capturing an alligator in the Kanawha River by a warm-water discharge from a chemical plant. I think its BS)

If ANY of these IDIOTS vote "yes"-- vote them out of office as soon as possible and expose their idiocy in order to embarass them every time you can! I have had enough of this stupidity.

The government is like a rabid wild boar. When it gets too big or too brave, you have to grab a bat and beat it down before it gores you. Politicians like that are jerks! Banana banana banana banana banana banana jerks!

I hope I have not left any doubt as to how I feel on this issue, but just in case:
:mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

Very well said Jason.
Thank You
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9358490#post9358490 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reef4Fun
Communism:
A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy

Hmmmm

as I said as well, just summed it up to one little line of words, it says it all.
 
I see that now Reef4Fun, I missed it the first time when I hit the first unread post it went straight to the second page. Sorry I missed it.
 
no need for apoligies at all Mary, and thank you for posting this thread. I am a animal rights type person, 100%, but I feel this bill has nothing to do with the welfare of anyone, with the exception of allowing our government more control of our every move. Even if this would happen to pass, it would not do anything but cause more work for the honest, the people that are abusing their rights to these animals are the ones that would not care, it would not make a difference. Thank you Mary for bringing this to our attention.
 
<b>
You need to see the new flyer we received today on this matter. I don't know if it's true or not but it states basically that:

Any person who has goldfish or hamsters etc, that breed and have babies will be considered a "pet store" by definition and have to seek proper permits and submit paper work to this new board. It also states that any board members or subgroup (Dept Agriculture etc) will have the right to "inspect" your nonnative animals and has discretion to do with them as they please.

You can research the validity etc of it if you like, Im just relaying the new information as I received it nothing more.

If even a shard of what I have heard of this is true we are in trouble. This has nothing to do with protecting anyone from anything and everything to do with creating a structure to impose licence, fees, and taxes on something that is in no way any "boards" business.

This is the same beurocratic nonsense that says we can not have our auctions unless we have a "licensed auctioneer" Why? Simple, so they get more than there fair share of our works that's why.
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On a side note I am unsubscribing from this thread and will no longer have anything to say on it. It was meant only for those who care not to start arguments. If you don't believe it that's perfectly fine, if it wont affect you or you think it wont also fine but if someone else wants to do something about it that is also there right as long as they do not infringe on yours I see no problems. In other words if you want to continue this discussion play nice, I wont be moderating it.

I have a meeting to plan,
later
 
Any idea what caused this?

Any idea what caused this?

I'm not a WV resident, so this topic really doesn't affect me directly. But reading over the posts, I've had some observations (which I hope are totally dispassionate, neutral, and perhaps helpful).

If you are a registered voter in the state of WV, it may be a very good idea to contact your legislators with the proposal that a comprehensive list of "pet trade" animals that will absoutely NOT be subject to regulation by the board need to be clearly defined within the law.

Reading between the lines of the actual wording of the proposed legislation (SB384 and HB2774), it seems that the goal of this law is to ban "dangerous" animals that affect public health and safety on a case-by-case basis. Therefore, if it were defined that certain animals were generally recognized as safe, then that would clear things up considerably.

They say a "Dangerous animal means a lion, tiger, leopard, ocelot, jaguar, cheetah, margay, mountain lion, lynx, bobcat, jaguarondi, bear, hyena, wolf, coyote or any poisonous or life-threatening reptile and includes any species, subspecies or crossbreeds of any of those animals". So why not define a list of animals that are not subject to regulation by the board?

The flyers really look like a complete and total joke to me, just the kind of thing that will cause the legislators to receive a lot of nutso emails from concerned hamster owners, and ultimately be strongly counterproductive. Opponents to ANY regulation often spread rumors, fear, and completely illogical assertions. That certainly looks to be the case here.

If you examined every state law within the lower 48 United States (Hawaii is extremely restrictive to any incoming animal - even dogs & cats), do you think that there is one on the books forbidding ownership of hamsters, goldfish, and parakeets? Does anyone honestly think West Virginia is going to be the first? Puhleeeeze give me a break.

However, if I owned a pet store in WV, I'd be totally sweating profusely over this. Any new government regulatory board overseeing my business would be an extremely uncomfortable proposition at the very best. Even though the law seems pretty lengthy if you read it, the wording is extremely vague in my opinion. Potential red tape and oversight without any clearly defined limits wouldn't warm anyones heart. Another reason to get a list of "pet trade" animals (especially birds) clearly defined BEFORE vaguely worded nonsense gets on the books.

BTW - people with pet birds have some well founded concerns. It is my understanding that for many decades (from WW2 until the 1970's) parrots were generally unavailable for US import due to concerns over Parrot Fever (psittacosis/chlamydiosis). Of course this disease can be treated, and is no longer as feared it once was, but is still with us (probably hundreds of human cases a year - if I worked with birds I'd certainly take a lot of precautions and inform my physician). But many other animals catch this disease including cats, cattle, sheep, mice, goats, and dogs. It is such a common disease of cats and sheep, that there are vaccines available for these animals. Unfortunately there is no vaccine for birds or humans.

I'd be very interested to know what incident kicked this whole shebang off. Does anyone know? It has to be SOMETHING - because.....

#1 = It is likely safe to say that most legislators (both on the state and federal level) are lawyers. So anything newfangled that crops up within the legal system just has to be regulated!

#2 = While some laws have a public name that is part of popular culture (like Megan's law for example - requiring sex offenders to register) virtually all government regulations can be traced back to a specific incident that spawns their genesis.

I guess I'm saying that all it takes to spawn a new law is for someone to buy a lionfish at Jomars, get stung while cleaning their tank, almost certainly have a reaction requring medical examination, and then go to an attorney and seek compensation for their ER/doctor visit. At that point your concerned legislator that wants to save us from ourselves (probably the attorney or partner in the law firm that represented the guy that was stung - and probably lost the case due to a common sense judge that threw it out) puts pen to paper and writes the "lionfish law".

I don't think anyone here owns a Hyena, or thinks it would be an especially good idea for someone without a professional facility to do so. But if this law passes, all it will take is for "the animal regulation board" to hear about an isolated incident like the hypothetical one described above to pull out the pen and ban lionfish ownership in WV.

One great way to ensure that doesn't happen is to see that all saltwater organisms are on the "exempt animal list" of SB384.

Again, just some thoughts, and I'm glad that I don't live in WV. :-)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9367387#post9367387 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by H.crispa

The government is like a rabid wild boar. When it gets too big or too brave, you have to grab a bat and beat it down before it gores you.

Viva La Revolution! :lol: haha

Seriously folks, who has a better system of government overall than we do? What about working within the system to change it for the better?

Start a serious effort toward a US constitutional admendment that every law that is passed (local, state, and federal) have a "sunset provision" where it expires within a period of no longer than 10 years without another legislative vote. That way, at least something isn't permanently and forever on the books without a periodic reconsideration and discussion of the necessity/validity. Regular review should be a part of the process. The law established in 1877 (or even 1997) may not be so relevant today.

And in the event of all CRIMINAL laws, require the prosecutor to provide proof where someone has been successfully tried, judged as guilty, and sentenced under that specific law within the preceding 10 years. Of course, all the usual stuff (everything from homicide, rape, robbery, fraud, speeding, wreckless driving, DUI, etc) would be an ongoing law enforcement mission. But the typical city law with a $50 fine for spitting on the sidewalk or failure to castrate your horse would eventually see a rightful demise.

Having 3 trillion pages of laws on the books (95% of which simply get established as precedent over an isolated incident, never expire, and are subsequently never enforced or applied) isn't really logical.

Why am I discussing government on a reef board.....Jason, you are a bad influence!!!! :lolspin:
 
I just know even if this is mild and only covers the listed animals it will if nothing else, pave the way for the next one and the next. We do not need this. We have animal abuse laws that would cover all this and more. I say just enforce what we have. I don't need to pay for a permit and a tax to have my pet. Whatever it happens to be.
 
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