Azoox nutrition storage

[glparr]

We all work daily to make sure our azoox corals, specifically chilis, dendronephthya, scleronephthya, chiro, etc., have a steady or nearly steady supply of food, because we know they'll die if they don't eat all of the time. It occurred to me today that these corals must have some level of nutritional storage capacity in their guts and tissues. They certainly can't be living so close to the edge that a day without food puts them on the decline. They all have survived the two or three days, or more, that it takes to get them from the ocean to our tanks.

Has there been any research that tells us how much nutritional material they can store, i.e., how long a well-fed azoox coral can go without any food before it starts down the slippery slope to death? Or do they literally live in an environment where there is never a food shortage?

Gary

 

[uhuru]

I've had gorgs and chili corals close up for weeks to up to a month before and look better than ever after. They must be able to utilize their own tissues for nutrition. They are probably also able to slow down their metabolism significantly if conditions are bad enough, and then "wake up" again when conditions are more optimal. Can't say the same for Dendronephthya and Scleronephthya, they seem worse off after not feeding for a while.

 

[GreshamH]

It most likely is dependent of where the Azoox coral is normally found. Azoox corals is a very diverse group and you really can't lump them together in a case like this.

 

[coltrref]

I am interested in the topic very much, I am going to continue the thread

 

[glparr]

This thread went over like a lead balloon. Gresham, agreed you can't lump all NPS corals together, which is why I tried to steer the discussion to the more difficult corals. Either I didn't explain it well or it's a non-question. Oh, well.
Gary

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

I've done journal searches before on dendronephthya and have only ever found maybe 10 or so that relate to their biology. Unfortunately, none of them answer this question. Im no marine biologist though...

 

[mesocosm]

Greetings All !

This thread went over like a lead balloon. ...

Hehe ... no it didn't ... :lol: ... and I suspect that there are many of us watching this thread's development with great interest. It's just that it's well beyond the envelope edge where most people play so I wouldn't expect to see numerous, rapid replies.

... you can't lump all NPS corals together, which is why I tried to steer the discussion to the more difficult corals. Either I didn't explain it well or it's a non-question. Oh, well.

Trying to determine a general timeframe of the energy storage capacity of NPS corals during the processes of collection, shipment, and system introduction is not trivial. I've been looking for just the kind of references that you're asking about ever since we decided to set up a dedicated NPS receiving-holding system. I've hit the same set of dead-ends that aninjaatemyshoe has ... when you get down to the level of specific NPS species, the research database is still emergent and largely fragmented. It very much reminds me of the state of microbial ecology research from 1980-1999 ... tantalizing, but difficult to practically apply. However, when I scale back the search and start looking for the cellular structures and molecules that are clearly involved in coral bioenergetics & energy budgeting, and are also shared across a significant set of coral genera (spanning a wide range of both 'hard' & 'soft' corals), then things become much more interesting, although the 'disconnect' between the research vs. practical application largely remains.

I'll try to stumble through the deranged rat's nest that is my 'favorites' folder and try to post some references later today, but two things seem pretty clear: (1) there exists a dizzying variety of structures within coral tissues that have the potential to store chemical energy for extended periods of time, and, (2) 'fatty' and 'waxy' esters are significant (within the context of the admittedly limited reaearch, at least) among the molecules that corals, both zooxanthellate & azooxanthellate, use for energy storage.



JMO ... HTH
:thumbsup:

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

The closest article I found was this:

Imbs, Andrey B., et. al. "Comparison of fatty acid compositions of azooxanthellate Dendronephthya and zooxanthellate soft coral species", Comparative Biochemistry and Physiology, Part B, Volume 148, issue 3, 2007 p. 314-321

If you have access to this article, it is worth checking out. However, the only practical information with regards to keeping these corals is that their fatty acid content suggests that a high proportion of their diet is bacteria. This finding is in line with other studies.

 

[glparr]

Gary White,
Thanks for the feedback. If you find articles that you can share, please do. Wading through academic articles can be tedious, but often I find items that spark new thoughts/practices and might unlock a door.

Aninja,
Thanks, I'll see if I can find that article. Sounds like the very thing for which I'm looking.

It isn't spoon-fed practical information I'm looking for. It's science-based information that can be molded into practical information and help us improve husbandry.

Gary

 

[mesocosm]

Greetings All !


I bring up the cellular and 'structural matrix' stuff because it's one of the basics. After all, it's hard to assess nutritional storage if there isn't a sense of the physiological structures that may be involved. If anyone is interested in the cytology & physiology of scleractinian azooxanthellate corals, this one is pretty good, and probably relatively representative of Tubastrea, Dendrophyllia, and Balanophyllia genera ...


Brahmi et al (2010) Skeletal growth, ultrastructure and composition of the azooxanthellate scleractinian coral Balanophyllia regia.
Coral Reefs, Volume 29, Issue 1, pp.175-189.



If anyone is interested in a more general perspective on the cytology & physiology in both zooxanthellate and azooxanthellate corals, these are pretty good, even though it doesn't come anywhere near to decribing the overall diversity & range ...

Goldberg (2002) Feeding behavior, epidermal structure and mucus cytochemistry of the scleractinian Mycetophyllia reesi, a coral without tentacles.
Tissue & Cell, 34 (4) 232"“245.

Goldberg (2001) Acid polysaccharides in the skeletal matrix and calicoblastic epithelium of the stony coral Mycetophyllia reesi.
Tissue & Cell, 33 (4) 376-387.



There are some very cool micrographs, if you're into that sort of thing ... :lol:




I see aninjaatemyshoe found one of the primary references behind my fatty esters observation ... nice. While it's tempting to get lost in the chemical structure formulae, I found these cuts from the abstract kind of interesting ...

Ten zooxanthellae-free Dendronephthya species , twelve zooxanthellate soft coral species of the genera Sarcophyton, Lobophytum, Cladiella, Lytophyton, Cespitularia, and Clavularia, and the hermatypic coral Caulastrea tumida were examined for the first time to elucidate the fatty acid (FA) composition of total lipids. ... The significant difference (p < 0.01) between azooxanthellate and zooxanthellate soft corals was indicated only for 12 of 46 FAs determined. ... The azooxanthellate soft corals studied were distinguished by the absence of significant depth-dependent and species-specific variations of FA composition, ... , an increased proportion of bacterial FAs, predominance of n-6 FAs connected with active preying ... .

Imbs et. al. (2007) Comparison of fatty acid compositions of azooxanthellate Dendronephthya and zooxanthellate soft coral species,
Comparative Biochemistry and Physiology, Part B, Volume 148, issue 3, p. 314-321

No surprise regarding 'active preying' but I too was struck by the significance of bacteria-derived fatty acids as a dietary component. Similarly, I was surprised by how there was no significant difference for 34 of 46 fatty acids measured ... common energy storage pathways, perhaps?



JMO ... HTH
:thumbsup:

 

[glparr]

Gary, are those papers available somewhere? I'd like to read them.
Gary

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Here's a relevant thread from about a year ago:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1779755

I think a lot of the evidence points in the direction of Dendronephthya feeding on large amounts of bacteria.

 

[uhuru]

Yes and I think that was the concept behind Fauna Marin's Dendronephthya line. The old instructions for Ultra Pac was to mix it with Ultra Clam (microplankton source), Ultra Life (nutrient transporter), a marine lipid supplement and a bacterial source (I think Ultra Bio), then let it sit for 24 hours at room temp before feeding. The longer you let it sit, the less viscous the mixture became - I assume because bacteria would start breaking down the polymers into smaller particles. There are supposed to be new instructions out but I have yet to see anything.

 

[uhuru]

If you look back at C. Stottlemire's tank, he dosed a lot of carbon and he dosed SD and RF mixed with saltwater in a bucket at room temperature. Lots of bacteria.

 

[Kreeger1]

Yep, chuck used a air bubbler and a dosing pump that ran most of the day. The food/water mix sat on top his tank and was room temp. I hope he continues and sets up a new tank but I think he's tossing in the towel for now. I got into the non photo corals at Chucks 6 month mark due to seeing how amazing a reef tank can really look.