Bangaii Baby with issues

[reggiepe]

Hi all. I just witnessed my single baby Bangaii have an "episode" of sudden fright syndrome. It is just just about 4 weeks old. I feed it freshly hatched brine shrimp twice a day. I use the brine shrimp for 72 hours and then switch over to a fresh hatch. I give the brine shrimp a couple of drops of Selcon once a day to fortify them. I am thinking that may not be enough Selcon. Any suggestions? In the last 4 days I have been shaving mysis in tiny bits but refuses to take it. I guess my question is that if I am seeing sudden fright syndrome now, is it reversable or is it just too late? If it is reversable, should I fortify the BBS with more selcon? Is there something else that I can try other than the shave mysis? This was my first attempt at breeding and I was elated that I have one last this long. Actually this is the only one that hatched. I really want to have a successful forst attempt. Thanks for any help you can suggest.

Rich

 

[FMarini]

SFS is reversible, but your going to have to get more HUFAs in the BBS diet. Selco is really only a coating, not sure how much is ingested by the nauplii. I'd try getting a phyto based product into your BBS cultures. A trimix or glycerol based mix will bump up the HUFAs as well.

 

[reggiepe]

oh crud. Some of the articles I had read were that the nauplii would ingest the SELCO. Neither here nor there...just want to rectify the situation. I have some phyto paste for feeding rotifers. Can I add some of that? If so, how much? Enought to make the water green..like you would for a rot culture and then add more when the water clears? Thanks for the reply Frank...it is really appreciated.

 

[reggiepe]

Oh...before I forget. I searched for "trimix or glycerol based mix" and I am not coming up with a hit on that. Could you give me some examples of what you are referring to? Thanks again.

 

[FMarini]

sorry reggiepe--
its my shorthand, trimix=a three part mix of phytoplanktons, for example Tahitian blend- algae pastes.(http://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/c1/Algae-Pastes-c6.html)
glycerol based mixs are cryopastes similar to trimixes except they can be single or multiple phytos.
Finally you can also use live mixes-- like DT or Reeds

the main issue w/ using glycerol based products is glycerol is a food for bacteria- so these products can foul the growout tanks, however since your changing out cultures frequently, you can wash/sterilize and repeat.

Prefeed the BS nauplii- ~4hr before feeding to fry

Feel free to read this article- its stickied at top of forum
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/dec2002/breeder.htm

 

[GreshamH]

OK borderline post coming and I understand if it gets edited but I think it's crucial info to share...

I'd stay away from using the "cryo" stuff for this purpose. Instant Algae would be my choice as it's made for larval conditions. There is a reason we stopped using glycerin in our products for larval culture. IA Shellfish Diet is what I'd use, or IA Rotigrow Plus.

 

[reggiepe]

I currently have on hand Nannochloropsis Algae Paste from BSD. It is marked Glycerin Free. I added it to my 48 hour BBS culture this evening. I will wait for 4 hours and then feed. Do you think that is good enough to continue at a twice a day feeding schedule or is it a futile effort and would need one of the trimixes that were suggested? Learning as I go.

I read the article Frank, thanks for the pointer.
Thanks for your response too, Gresham. Hopefully Frank didn't take offense.

 

[GreshamH]

nanno doesn't have that great of a HUFA profile which is why both Frank and I suggested using a mix. Rotigrow Plus has a great HUFA profile, the best out of anything we produce and the stuff BSD sells is our phyto repackaged and mix in their own manor. They don't grow their own.

 

[FMarini]

Gresham--
Many thanks for clarifying. Yes I understand where your coming from, and the "cryo" anything comment for larval feeding.

I used for more than 10yrs cryo mixes and while i fought occasional bacterial blooms and whatnot- the stuff worked- maybe it could have worked much better-but for supplementing BBS nauplii to feed to banggai fry- it worked for me.

However i agree that glycerol free stocks are considerably better, and i dont take offense to Gresham comments- he works w/ this stuff everyday and is input in valuable here. I defer to him in this regards

 

[GreshamH]

Frank you know I hold you in the highest regards Heck I was thrilled to meet you years back and I am still stoked to know you now!

I was more worried about MODS taking my post as commercial post. It's a fine line I walk around here and I really don't want to jeopardize my participation on RC... after all I am a hobbyist and have been much longer then my job at Reed I try very hard not to cross the line but with so few companies doing what we do it's hard to not cross it at times.

 

[FMarini]

Thanks Gresh--
I'll look into rotigrow plus myself. Problem is w/ us scientists- when something works, we stick w/ it. Its hard to move away from "old favorites" w/o compelling data that new is better. So if your telling me the HUFAs profile in the Reed Rotigrow is as good as or better than my old school tri mix (tahitian mix)-
Then I'm all over it

 

[GreshamH]

www.rotigrow.com download the PDF and check out the data. The Rotigrow line has had the most research put into then any of our other products. It took two years of development working closely with hatcheries world wide.

 

[reggiepe]

Since posting I have been adding the nanno paste to the BBS and feeding the Bangaii. I have not witnessed SFS since then. I currently have him in an in-tank refugium and I moved the powerhead too close to one of the wholes and the current took him over the edge into my 30 breeder. I thought I would probably induce SF when I tried to catch him, but it was an easy chore with no episodes. Here is a quick pic of the lucky little fellow.

...and yes that is an old hairbrush acting as a surrogate urchin.

Thanks for all of the help and pointers.