Building a shallow reef

[rygar]

Ok. Here we go. Was throwing around the idea of a monster reef tank, but after much thought decided against it. I did that a few years back and would like to do something different. The build process is the fun part by far. Once its done, its done. So I will be building a shallow reef from scratch and the plans I have flying around in my head about it will keep this build going for many years. Approximate size will be 9' x 5' deep x 2' tall. Still a decent size, but not huge. I have kids so I need glass pieces around the top edge all the way around so little fingers can't grab ahold of the side. These will be maybe 4" or so. I don't want a brace going across the center of it because the plan is to have a few islands coming out of the water. Kinda like the volcano tank you can see on youtube, but not quite so volcanoish. Possibly artificial, maybe live rock, not sure yet. It will be completely open on top with a bulkhead housing the lights. The top of the tank is going to be pretty low so you can see things from above.
Gotta start somewhere so my first questions are:
1) Will I be ok without a center brace with the tank being only 24" tall

2) Is it a mistake to go 24" tall with the idea of islands out of the water or should I back that off to 18" tall to make it easier?

Or if you got any questions, fire away.

 

[JBarnes]

I've been looking at doing the same thing. I've settled on 16" tall because I do want to look down into the tank and want mangroves growing on some islands. At 24" tall won't you have a tough time looking down into the tank? I figure mine will be at roughly a 14" water level. I've seen several lately at a couple of the LFS's. They really do look nice. Building as large as you are the costs of glass will go up significantly due to that height and no braces.
All the ones I've seen are euro braced but no center bracing. Jerry.

 

[dave.m]

It is the thickness of the glass that will make the difference and why you won't need a centre brace. You mention a 4" rim. If you mean a 4" eurobrace inside around the top then you would do well at 24" tall using 1/2" glass. A second 4" eurobrace inside at the bottom would give additional security.

You're talking of a 674 gallon system so that will be pretty massive. I hope you have taken the effect of the weight on the floor into consideration.

Dave.M

 

[rygar]

Thanks guys...keep em coming. Awesome to hear of someone else doing something like this. I looked all over the internet and just found a few smaller ones. I'm at work so can't respond now. But will be sitting in my lazy boy come 8:00 and the kids are in bed.

 

[rygar]

I've been looking at doing the same thing. I've settled on 16" tall because I do want to look down into the tank and want mangroves growing on some islands. At 24" tall won't you have a tough time looking down into the tank? I figure mine will be at roughly a 14" water level. I've seen several lately at a couple of the LFS's. They really do look nice. Building as large as you are the costs of glass will go up significantly due to that height and no braces.
All the ones I've seen are euro braced but no center bracing. Jerry.

Thinking of putting the top of the tank at about chest level, then on the sides a couple steps up to really be able to look down on it. There will be about 3' or so on each side between the sides of the tank and the walls. Im torn about the height. I like tall tanks for the fish, but love how shallow tanks look so natural, and with the lighting being quite a bit higher than what is normal, the shallower the better from that aspect. Was thinking 24" would be a happy medium. This might prove too tall though when it comes to creating islands. Very interested to see what you do with it.

 

[rygar]

It is the thickness of the glass that will make the difference and why you won't need a centre brace. You mention a 4" rim. If you mean a 4" eurobrace inside around the top then you would do well at 24" tall using 1/2" glass. A second 4" eurobrace inside at the bottom would give additional security.

You're talking of a 674 gallon system so that will be pretty massive. I hope you have taken the effect of the weight on the floor into consideration.

Dave.M

I didn't think about bracing the bottom. Makes sense. And now I know what eurobracing means..thanks. As far as weight goes, I think I'll be good. The tank will be directly on the foundation on the main level between the family room and 3rd stall. When we built the house, I had them use oversized rerod, horizontal and vertical in the poured walls, and oversized the footings both in height and width. And the tank has a pretty big footprint which also helps.

 

[dave.m]

I'm not sure having to step up on a walk-around platform is all that reasonable. Better to just build a lower stand if look-down is that important to you. With such a large footprint you will have space under the tank to grow horizontally for your filtration and pumps, etc. Lights would have to be pendant canons, of course, to keep the overhead open and uncluttered for look-down. I hope you realize that with the pumps running the surface agitation will reduce most of the visibility to make look-down possible.

Dave.M

 

[rygar]

I'm not sure having to step up on a walk-around platform is all that reasonable. Better to just build a lower stand if look-down is that important to you. With such a large footprint you will have space under the tank to grow horizontally for your filtration and pumps, etc. Lights would have to be pendant canons, of course, to keep the overhead open and uncluttered for look-down. I hope you realize that with the pumps running the surface agitation will reduce most of the visibility to make look-down possible.

Dave.M

All good stuff to think about. Im not planning on having anything under the tank. Maybe just for storing unused plumbing parts and junk like that. The 3rd stall is about 20 x 20 and will be used for all the fun stuff. It was gonna be a wood shop so Its have it heated, insulated, and plenty of power.
Now that you mention it, there will be quite a bit of surface agitation with water flowing over the islands splashing into the tank. So that's something to deal with.
Agreed about the canons too. Maybe a few solatubes??

The main reason for the platforms on the sides is so the kids can see over the rim. We've got a batch of our own along with 20 very young nieces and nephews. I don't want them to have to struggle to get a good look. At chest height for someone that's 5'8 (me and the wife) , I think that would be ok to look both into the tank at the islands without bending over or struggling to see over the edge. Not necessarily to look down in at the fish. What do you think?

Also, My arms aren't 5' long. So reaching the back will be impossible without actually getting in and walking (squatting) back there or making some kind of removable platform to crawl on. Can't do doors from the back because that's where the water station and storage shelving is going. Any ideas on this?

 

[dave.m]

Maybe a few solatubes??

:thumbsup:

I'm having difficulty picturing the set-up for the rest of your questions. Maybe you should spend sometime with Sketch-Up and start laying your thoughts out graphically. That would help you get you ideas ironed out and enable you to express them to others.

Dave.M

 

[rygar]

Yeah. I was thinking that same thing.

 

[guserto4]

For a tank this big a square footage my first thought, after lighting, is adequate flow. Sounds like a perfect tank for a gyre- set vertically to make the gyre run around the perimeter of the tank. THAT would be a test of those new pumps!

The size you are thinking without center brace would mean monster thick glass/acrylic. Should be a neat build. The weight, as well, will be a big issue. You're at 125lbs / sq ft in just water which isn't really bad until you factor the size and add everything else (a person standing takes up more or less 1 sq ft. But you're talking about 45 people...) so I'd start with a serious discussion on where you might put such a big boy tank and look at your structural support.

Shallow tanks are my favorite and am interested to follow along.

 

[rygar]

For a tank this big a square footage my first thought, after lighting, is adequate flow. Sounds like a perfect tank for a gyre- set vertically to make the gyre run around the perimeter of the tank. THAT would be a test of those new pumps!

The size you are thinking without center brace would mean monster thick glass/acrylic. Should be a neat build. The weight, as well, will be a big issue. You're at 125lbs / sq ft in just water which isn't really bad until you factor the size and add everything else (a person standing takes up more or less 1 sq ft. But you're talking about 45 people...) so I'd start with a serious discussion on where you might put such a big boy tank and look at your structural support.

Shallow tanks are my favorite and am interested to follow along.

Im not planning on a completely full reef. There will be a lot of open areas. So the entire tank will not have to have high par ratings. Just the areas with the corals. that's a ways down the road though.

Gyres...What pumps are you speaking of to use for this?

I'm a glass distributer. So whatever glass is required, I'll get just a little bit thicker. The key is to find someone in the area who is familiar with on site tank building. Still working on that one.

As for weight, this is not a concern. It will be sitting over the footings of the house. on the main floor. A couple posts ago, I went into a little bit of detail on that. I went extreme on the foundation of our house.

I am in the process of figuring out sketch up. Not as easy as it looks!! Then a lot of this will make more sense.

 

[guserto4]

I missed the structural considerations, my apologies.

Pretty nice to be a glass guy, that will certainly help the budget! As for the gyre... Maxspect gyre, the new 'it' powerhead that just came out this month (mid model, with a smaller and larger coming soon). Pretty neat, I'm waiting for the smaller model, but maybe you'd want the bigger one :lmao:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2418285

 

[rygar]

I missed the structural considerations, my apologies.

Pretty nice to be a glass guy, that will certainly help the budget! As for the gyre... Maxspect gyre, the new 'it' powerhead that just came out this month (mid model, with a smaller and larger coming soon). Pretty neat, I'm waiting for the smaller model, but maybe you'd want the bigger one :lmao:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2418285

Definitely something to look into!! Thanks. How far along are you with your build?

 

[guserto4]

Still just dreaming. I got a promotion and will be moving across the country in the spring so I've been going through all things fishy and packing things up in anticipation for setting it all back up. Truthfully I'm at least 6 months away before I get to pull the trigger on my shallow tank, but a guy can plan! Getting the components for the stand figured out now as I have spare lumber from gutting my house and my co. is moving me

I'm hoping to be totally up, cycled and ready to make some real purchases at reefapalooza in LA next fall. It's a looong time to wait but nothing good in life, and especially this hobby, comes from impatience!

I'd take a serious look at that gyre pump, looks like the biggest new thing in reefing since the MP's, especially for such a large tank. Trying to get flow while still getting a top down view will be challenging in a shallow so the gyre is what I plan on doing!

 

[rygar]

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e...41117_125327_152_zpsde63f664.jpg?t=1416247767

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e...41117_122945_091_zps062b1bd5.jpg?t=1416247771

Ok. Hope this works. The top one is before and the bottom is after. I've been trying to work with sketchup. Kind of a pain. I can't find anybody who has used this and I can't sit at the computer for hours trying to figure it out. So I just copied my house plans and drew in the changes. There is a lot left to figure out but at least now you have a better idea on what we're trying to do.

 

[rygar]

Still just dreaming. I got a promotion and will be moving across the country in the spring so I've been going through all things fishy and packing things up in anticipation for setting it all back up. Truthfully I'm at least 6 months away before I get to pull the trigger on my shallow tank, but a guy can plan! Getting the components for the stand figured out now as I have spare lumber from gutting my house and my co. is moving me

I'm hoping to be totally up, cycled and ready to make some real purchases at reefapalooza in LA next fall. It's a looong time to wait but nothing good in life, and especially this hobby, comes from impatience!

I'd take a serious look at that gyre pump, looks like the biggest new thing in reefing since the MP's, especially for such a large tank. Trying to get flow while still getting a top down view will be challenging in a shallow so the gyre is what I plan on doing!

Wow! Sounds like you got a lot on your plate. Moving across country aint no joke. I hope everything goes well and can't wait to see how your build goes. Pretty sure your gonna beat me. We just "finished" our house. If you ever built your own house, you would know what I'm talking about. We're moved in but have a ton of work to do yet. I know I know...just built and already changing the house, but that's how we roll. Ya try to plan best you can, then something like this pops into your head. Oh well...keeps life interesting. I'm sure I'll be following your build.

 

[rygar]

The glass manufacturer we buy from just let me know that they have a 6" minimum width when dealing with glass this long. Could this be an issue? Like if I ever need to lean over the edge. and put weight on it...Will that be too much pressure 6" out?