Butterfly fish in QT - newbie and need advice please

[NancyT3]

Hi again
QT treatment question:
I received two butterfly fish last week Thursday, 8 days ago. They both initially looked beautiful. Both from Dr Reefs, pre-quarantined. My QT tank was still cycling and positive for Ammonia so I put them into the DT. One of my butterflies got a white spot on his mouth and whitish area on flesh down the side of his mouth on his right side. So I treated food with Kanaplex and focus for two days, Monday and Tuesday. By this time my QT tank has had ammonia at zero, and nitrites are improving from 2.0 to 0.5 today. Yesterday I noticed white spots on his pectoral fins I moved him to my QT late yesterday and treated the tank with Paraguard and treated the tank with Kanaplex into the water.
I have never QT'd before. Appreciate your advice on what the issue(s) are and how you would treat them. How often to water change etc..

Display tank question:
Do I need to treat the Display tank as well? All fish look great there.
This is the fourth fish though I have added to my DT since the tank started up earlier this year, that gets a mouth infection and ultimately dies. Is this common? Is there something lurking in my tank I need to eradicate?

Link to videos:

Thanks again for everything,
Nancy

 

[griss]

Calling the experts.

@Dr. Reef @leebca @HumbleFish

 

[leebca]

Hi Nancy,
With regards to the QT cycling. You can almost immediately get it set by adding bottled bacteria. A couple of suppliers have bottled, active bacteria that will 'jump-start' the QT. You can find such things online or at your local fish store.

From what I can see, the fish may have a viral infection, OR a fungal infection. I favor a virus infection. Look closely (better than the photos and videos showed me) and see what it looks like. If the white has a cauliflower appearance, it is likely Lymphocystis, Lymphocystis is a virus that expresses itself when the fish is stressed. It's like the human common cold virus. Always around, just waiting to get a ‘foothold’ when a human is stressed. The fish is stressed just because it has gone through the 'system' to get to you, the hobbyist. Now it's time to make it less stressful. You can look on the internet for photos that show this. Reducing stress includes an excellent diet with supplements. Help the fish by improving its immunity and ability to heal wounds by adding supplements for an ill fish to its diet as recommended in the Fish Nutrition document. Click on that link, then download (and read) the document. Use especially Beta-1,3/1,6-D-Glucan found online, in health-food stores, and pharmacies. Directions for its use and quantity is provided in the link.

Reducing stress includes lowering ambient lighting and don't put a light on the QT. Keep people away. Feed frequently. Maintain excellent water quality AND keep it constant. If there is ANY signs the fish aren't getting along with the others in the QT, best to separate them. A plastic divider with holes for water circulation or a clean plastic fly screen will work.

Regarding the possibility of it being a fungal infection, then treat in the QT with an antibiotic. I like using Erythromycin (in Maracyn). Also, the Kanaplex you've used can help cure fungus too. An all around medication is Nitrofuracin Green, and Nitrofurazone. My preference is Maracyn. If the Kanaplex you're using doesn't clear it up, then switch to one of the other antibiotics.

ParaGuard is another anti-fungal medication and if it doesn't work, choose another antibiotic.

In either case -- virus or fungal -- no need to treat the DT. Also, FYI a fungal infection is rare. Good luck.

 

[NancyT3]

Hi Nancy,
With regards to the QT cycling. You can almost immediately get it set by adding bottled bacteria. A couple of suppliers have bottled, active bacteria that will 'jump-start' the QT. You can find such things online or at your local fish store.

From what I can see, the fish may have a viral infection, OR a fungal infection. I favor a virus infection. Look closely (better than the photos and videos showed me) and see what it looks like. If the white has a cauliflower appearance, it is likely Lymphocystis, Lymphocystis is a virus that expresses itself when the fish is stressed. It's like the human common cold virus. Always around, just waiting to get a ‘foothold’ when a human is stressed. The fish is stressed just because it has gone through the 'system' to get to you, the hobbyist. Now it's time to make it less stressful. You can look on the internet for photos that show this. Reducing stress includes an excellent diet with supplements. Help the fish by improving its immunity and ability to heal wounds by adding supplements for an ill fish to its diet as recommended in the Fish Nutrition document. Click on that link, then download (and read) the document. Use especially Beta-1,3/1,6-D-Glucan found online, in health-food stores, and pharmacies. Directions for its use and quantity is provided in the link.

Reducing stress includes lowering ambient lighting and don't put a light on the QT. Keep people away. Feed frequently. Maintain excellent water quality AND keep it constant. If there is ANY signs the fish aren't getting along with the others in the QT, best to separate them. A plastic divider with holes for water circulation or a clean plastic fly screen will work.

Regarding the possibility of it being a fungal infection, then treat in the QT with an antibiotic. I like using Erythromycin (in Maracyn). Also, the Kanaplex you've used can help cure fungus too. An all around medication is Nitrofuracin Green, and Nitrofurazone. My preference is Maracyn. If the Kanaplex you're using doesn't clear it up, then switch to one of the other antibiotics.

ParaGuard is another anti-fungal medication and if it doesn't work, choose another antibiotic.

In either case -- virus or fungal -- no need to treat the DT. Also, FYI a fungal infection is rare. Good luck.

Thank you -- I am giving him and all my fish Vitachem. I am still waiting for the Selcon to be delivered. I ordered some of the Beta 1,2/1,6 Glucan which will arrive today. In your food document , I have the freeze dried plankton, and am feeding that after soaking. What are your thoughts on the bottled copepods that are available and risk/ reward on those? My thought being that he has a damaged mouth right now and I need to offer him something small.

 

[leebca]

Thank you -- I am giving him and all my fish Vitachem. I am still waiting for the Selcon to be delivered. I ordered some of the Beta 1,2/1,6 Glucan which will arrive today. In your food document , I have the freeze dried plankton, and am feeding that after soaking. What are your thoughts on the bottled copepods that are available and risk/ reward on those? My thought being that he has a damaged mouth right now and I need to offer him something small.

There is always a risk feeding live saltwater foods. It depends on how they were raised or captured. If they came from a source where fish are in the same water, there is a risk of introducing a fish pathogen and/or parasites. Just be sure of the source. As an alternative, feeding pods from freshwater is an option, although not as nutritious as from the fish's natural source (sea water), they are much safer.

Some very avid hobbyists raise their own pods either in a refugium or separate system.

Treating the fish as if it is injured is a good choice. You didn't mention, but I hope the fish are still eating.

 

[NancyT3]

He is looking better but appears to be having trouble eating. The spots on his fins are almost all gone. His mouth had some sloughing skin yesterday and today looks like it is starting to heal but he is having some trouble eating. I fed soaked freeze dried plankton w vita chem this morning. He approached them but didn’t eat. Then I fed thawed hiraki frozen mysis and he really wanted those and maybe had one or two but mostly went through the motions.
My other tank is eating everything and active all looking very healthy.

 

[leebca]

Keeping them eating is of the greatest importance. Do what you can. Live adult or newly hatched brine shrimp can sometimes help entice a fish. Fish roe and decapsulated brine shrimp eggs are also nutritious and may sometimes tempt a slow eater.

 

[NancyT3]

I’ll see if I can get roe. He really wants to eat. Goes to it but doesn’t ingest any. Today’ s pick. I wish I could syringe some in for him. I’m starting to think I’m losing this battle.

 

[leebca]

Another source of stress is adding medications to the water. If the QT water has chemicals/medications in it, you might try making a large (50%) water change making sure to match salinity, pH, and temperature. It is beginning to look more like an injury.

Review the linked post for ideas on getting a fish to eat.

 

[NancyT3]

OK I think my butterfly turned the corner and while his mouth still looks awful, he is back eating again, voraciously, and swimming around. Thank you @leebca for your advice. Spots on fins are all gone, just the mouth needs to heal now. Still using Paraguard daily. I did get him some Selcon (today) and Beta 1,2/1,6 Glucan yesterday in his food. And he has had vitachem a few times in the past week. I do note a red area near the gills on each side now. Is that something you would do anything about?

 

[leebca]

First and foremost, thank you for the update. I don't often get to hear how things go after the first post. The fish does look much better and is behaving much better too -- more active and interested in its surroundings. Good signs.

I've never been a big supporter of ParaGuard. Probably a good idea to stop using it soon, if you haven't already. I have a post of some medications and chemicals to keep on hand, if you're interested. Download then read through, the Marine Fish Medicine Cabinet document.