Cant' seem to keep SPS

D

dsalomone

New member
Hi,
I have been trying for years with SPS frags and just can't get anything to not turn into a white stick.
I have done everything to get my parameters in line and stable for months. I thought I would give a superman monti frag a shot. Placed it on low to acclimate to my lighting and in two days the edges started to burn up and now it is almost completely faded. When this happened in the past, I assumed it was alk with was at 10. Now I keep it at 7-8 while running biopellets. My LFS thinks it is my lighting burning it up. I have 2-250 watt halides with 2-T5 actinic bulbs and my tank is 31 inch deep 150. The frag started almost on the sand bed about 30 inches below the lights.
I just can't seem to solve the SPS puzzle.
My stats are
salt 1.025
phos .01 hanna
nitrate 10 red sea pro
alk 7-8 hanna
calc 450 hanna
mag 1350 salifert
Metal halide bulbs run for 6 hours. Actinics for 10 hours.

David
 
Can always be a number of reasons. But you say alk 10, or is it 10DKH? Big different. Too high ALK will burn the coral, same with too much light too fast, but you said you've put it at bottom. Nitrate normally turns the coral Brown. I might think you got something else in your water. Have you tested for copper (cu)? Or any other metals?
 
For something like a monti to start losing tissue and bleaching seems like your tank must have some other contaminant or is experiencing some sudden changes. Have you tested your alk/ph multiple times in one day? What about your temp?. I don't think a 250W halide burned your coral in a 30"+ deep tank, but I could be wrong.
 
Guttungen said:
Can always be a number of reasons. But you say alk 10, or is it 10DKH? Big different. Too high ALK will burn the coral, same with too much light too fast, but you said you've put it at bottom. Nitrate normally turns the coral Brown. I might think you got something else in your water. Have you tested for copper (cu)? Or any other metals?
Click to expand...

A year ago when I tried and was having the problems, the alk was reading 10 dkh. Over a month, I slowly dropped it to 7-8. I've kept it there since. Haven't tested for copper. I'll see if I can get a test kit.

phasezero said:
For something like a monti to start losing tissue and bleaching seems like your tank must have some other contaminant or is experiencing some sudden changes. Have you tested your alk/ph multiple times in one day? What about your temp?. I don't think a 250W halide burned your coral in a 30"+ deep tank, but I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

My ph monitor goes from 7.6-7.9 during the day. I could never in the 7 years the tank has been up get the ph over 8. I even started using a co2 scrubber. Tank stays steady at 78-79.

Don't know if I should try decreasing the time period of the halides when a frag goes in. Maybe running a couple of days at 3 hours then slowly adding time to get back to 6 hours.

Thanks for the help.
 
dalomone,

If the tank is over a year old and your parameters are actually what you say they are, then the tank should be able to grow SPS.

1)I concur with testing the tank for Copper. I would recommend a Salifert test kit. Has the tank been treated with copper in the past?

2) I would calibrate the instrument you are using to check your specific gravity with. If you don't have money or access for a standard solution, ask someone you know who is running a successful sps tank to check your water with their instrument.

3) I would also get a second opinion on your other tank parameters, just to be sure. Bring a water sample to the LFS or a buddy and have them test it.

4) What exactly are you running for lighting? Specifically the brand of bulb, whether it is single ended or double ended, what ballast, and
whether or not there is a glass shield on the reflector.

I would not be overly concerned with the pH. My last aquarium was in a small apartment where 4 people lived. My pH rarely got above 7.8 and would often get down into the 7.5's at night. The sps still grew and were very colorful. The pH is low, but the scrubber is something I would only consider as a last resort.
 
If you bring your alk up your pH will also rise, I have over 30 SPS and have alk at 10 with ph at 8.05 in morning and 8.25 end of lights. My Mh are on 6 hr 15 min and actinics are 9 hours. Cal stays stead at 430 and mag steady at 1380. I do use a cal reactor. A real factor to look at besides parameters is lighting, change bulbs to 10 or 14 k for mh and T5's for pure actinics and maybe a blue plus.
 
Hi dsalomone,

Could you please provide some details on the type of flow that you place your SPS in? The flow should be strong enough to move all the polyps around, but not strong enough to make it look like its in a wind tunnel.

Warmest Regards,
James
 
naterealbig said:
dalomone,

If the tank is over a year old and your parameters are actually what you say they are, then the tank should be able to grow SPS.

1)I concur with testing the tank for Copper. I would recommend a Salifert test kit. Has the tank been treated with copper in the past?

2) I would calibrate the instrument you are using to check your specific gravity with. If you don't have money or access for a standard solution, ask someone you know who is running a successful sps tank to check your water with their instrument.

3) I would also get a second opinion on your other tank parameters, just to be sure. Bring a water sample to the LFS or a buddy and have them test it.

4) What exactly are you running for lighting? Specifically the brand of bulb, whether it is single ended or double ended, what ballast, and
whether or not there is a glass shield on the reflector.

I would not be overly concerned with the pH. My last aquarium was in a small apartment where 4 people lived. My pH rarely got above 7.8 and would often get down into the 7.5's at night. The sps still grew and were very colorful. The pH is low, but the scrubber is something I would only consider as a last resort.
Click to expand...

Tank has been up since 2005. I have the calibration solution and check my refractometer once a month.
It's never been treated with copper.
My bulbs are coralife hqi 14ks. There is no glass shield.
Gonna have a Ls check the water when I pick up the copper test.

MHG said:
What kind of par....?

Nitrates look high to me...
Click to expand...

Never been able to check the par

CUNAReefer said:
Hi dsalomone,

Could you please provide some details on the type of flow that you place your SPS in? The flow should be strong enough to move all the polyps around, but not strong enough to make it look like its in a wind tunnel.

Warmest Regards,
James
Click to expand...

For flow I have 2 mag 1800 on closed loops with sea swirls and 2 mp40s at 75% on reef crest. The tank is a peninsula so most of the flow comes from one side.

I am leaning towards some type of contaminate. Hopefully a couple of tests will confirm.
Thanks again
David
 
Contacted Hamilton who makes my fixture about getting a replacement. Have been researching Maxpect and Ecotech LED's for a while now. This might push me over the edge.
 
Ask any local glass shop for a tempered piece cut to size. It will 2x cheaper and 2x faster. Now, get them frags growing.
 
Most of your LED fixtures have UV so I would guess that's not your issue. I'm leaning toward your bio pellets, although your nitrates and p04 looks good. I've read lots of good and bad things about pellets. And I've heard of people having similar issues. Your setup sound perfect. I just put some Vertex Illuminas over my 180 and I must admit there awesome.
 
Dsalamone, Just plain tempered glass blocks uv. How r your other corals? U ever just leave your sps on the sand bed? How r u acclimating them? I leave my corals on the floor sometimes months Untill they show growth or great polyp extension and then I move it to a brighter area but no earlier than a week or two. In most cases my corals brown and look cheap! But as soon as I see them polyps and growth they get moved on up.


Alan, u sure bud? I use to run DE bulbs and running them without a shield is a death sentence. Where did u gather LED emitting strong enough UV. I heard companies were trying to add UV to LED but that's a diff discussion. If u have a link I love to read it. I'm kinda confused now.
 
Tank has been up since 2005. I have the calibration solution and check my refractometer once a month.
It's never been treated with copper.
My bulbs are coralife hqi 14ks. There is no glass shield.
Gonna have a Ls check the water when I pick up the copper test.
Click to expand...

dsalomone,

I believe you have found your answer here. As ReefSmac and a few others politely stated, a glass shield is ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED when running a double ended metal halide bulb. I would bet a paycheck that is what is killing your corals.

The double ended bulbs emit a large amount of UVC which is extremely harmful to corals and even to you (don't look at the bulb).

Let's not even get into the fact that Coralife produces sub-par equipment, and of it all, their bulbs are the absolute worst ( I have experience as a customer AND as a coralife retailer ).

I would do some research on glass shielding, as I am not sure that a regular glass pane will do what you need it to do (although it may). If it were me, I would definitely ditch the bulb(s). Now would be a great time to purchase a quality reflector and bulb. You and your corals will be much happier.

Additionally, 10ppm nitrates are absolutely nothing to worry about. I have grown very colorful and fast growing SPS in tanks with 20 ppm nitrates.
 
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