Caribbean FOWLR

[Chasmodes]

I've been mulling this over for a long time, planning to have a Caribbean "reef" tank, but after some research I've decided on FOWLR simply because I prefer fish over inverts. I'd like to do a reef, but it will be a smaller tank and Indo-Pacific, but that will be another thread later on.

I'm planning on a 300+ gallon acrylic tank, probably will be a cubish 48" X 48" X 30" tank so that I can have the depth and give the fish more room. I may opt for a longer tank with the 48" depth. All this depends on if I can get the tank downstairs! I may have to have it custom built in my home... I'll have this tank heavily skimmed, I plan on a sump/refugium of about 125g so that I can grow macroalgae for the grazers in the main tank. I may have a few inverts in there.

Planned stocking:
1 Queen Angelfish
3 Atlantic Blue Tang
1 Swissguard Basslet
3 Dusky Jawfish
1 Cherub Angelfish
8 Blue Reef Chromis
1 Bluehead Wrasse
1 Red Spotted Hawkfish
1 Seaweed Blenny
1 Red Lip Blenny
1 Scrawled Cowfish (Lactophrys quadricornis)
1 Atlantic Longnose Butterflyfish
1 Sharpnose Puffer (Canthigaster rostrata)

I'm on the fence with the cowfish, butterfly and the puffer and may not get them just to keep bioload a bit lower.

I plan on starting the tank with only Caribbean LR and sand seeded with some Florida LS. I have a few questions though.

I would like to have calcareous macro algae in the main tank, like the Mermaid's Fan Macroalgae (Udotea sp.), Halimeda Macroalgae, and Shaving Brush Macroalgae (Penicillus sp.). Would these be grazed and/or eliminated by the tangs and angels? Would I need a calcium reactor to keep these macro algae healthy?

Also, rather than RO/DI, I was leaning toward a "Poly-Bio-Marine Kold Ster-il Hi -Flow Three Stage Water Filter". My LFS guy says that these are nearly or as good as RO/DI but without having so much waste water. Anyone have experience with this type of water purifier? Any reason to not use this and go RO/DI?

Also, what about lighting? I like the electric blue that you see on angels in pics and would like to see that same effect in my display. Would MH lighting teamed with blue lights give me that effect? Would I need MH in my fuge to keep that macro algae food source growing?

Also, any suggestions on water flow? Should I do a closed loop?

Future possibility: This is probably just a pipe dream, but I would like to eventually have a Caribbean SPS tank with these fish, so my set up may seem like a reef with a purpose but only FOWLR now. My far fetched hope is to bring in LR from Florida or somewhere that may have some living SPS coral. Worst case scenario would still be my dream tank, FOWLR and a queen angel centerpiece.

Comments, suggestions? I'm in the planning stages right now but ready to start buying. I'm in the process of adding electrical infrastructure right now (dedicated circuits for my tanks). I also plan to have some sort of disaster prevention, a generator backup...etc.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Mike4284m]

I believe you're actually building my dream tank as well. Good luck and I can't wait to see how this goes.

Addressing the macro, if you have calcareus types like you mentioned you will need to monitor and possibly dose calcium. If you do frequent water changes you may be ok though because the tank volume is so large. I think you'll find that most fish will leave these macros alone. If you have any more questions about this aspect of the tank hop over to the Macroalgae forum.

 

[T-T-Trigger]

ummm... where's the queen triggerfish?????

 

[Chasmodes]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8223598#post8223598 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by T-T-Trigger
ummm... where's the queen triggerfish?????

Ah, now I do love that fish, but the other fish on that list would most likely be food or chew toys

Maybe I'll branch a tank of this system just for a queen trigger:thumbsup:

 

[Triggerman1964]

I'd seriously pass on the cowfish.

 

[T-T-Trigger]

ok... how about the nassau grouper? green moray? or a nice gentle nurse shark? so many choices.....

but seriously, I like the idea. if I were to ever do it I'd have to include a french angel, love that fish.

On macro - I agree with everything Mike said.

On live rock - it may be aquacultured in Florida, but it is in the gulf obviously and I don't think a necessary thing for a carribean biotope. I did - not too long ago - pick up some Haitian live rock off of eBay. It was nice for the money, unique shapes. I don't know of any other rock that one could call caribbean? anyone one else know of any?

 

[Chasmodes]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8224453#post8224453 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Triggerman1964
I'd seriously pass on the cowfish.

Yeah, they are a kewl fish, but there are several on my list, especially the queen, that would nip at it's fins...

...and cause it to poison my tank. I heard that this species was not as toxic but couldn't find any facts to back that up. My wife likes them, but she likes puffers too. I'm a huge fan of angels and blennies, the rest are just company and entertainment for them:lol:

T-T, yeah, I realize that aquacultured gulf live rock just isn't the same, but, I think that it's as close as I can find for the Caribbean biotope. At least a lot of those critters, sponges and stuff can be found on the Atlantic reefs. I'll have to investigate the Haitian stuff, sounds good.

 

[Chasmodes]

I guess it would be a Florida biotope

 

[Mike4284m]

Couple thoughts.

I think I'd go with a trio of blue headed wrasse. I've seen them while snorkeling and they are always in groups. It would look great to have one large blue-headed male and a couple smaller females (which lack the blue head). I bet they would be quite interesting to watch in a large aquarium like you have planned.

Any reason you are going with dusky jawfish? I would go with yellowheads, which are found in Florida as well as the Caribbean. Regardless, the tank may be a bit large to actually enjoy these fish anyway.

I know a great diver you can look up down the road when your ready to order livestock. Its great to cut out the middle man and reduce the stress on the fish. Plus his prices are great, at least for the things that I have purchased.

 

[Chasmodes]

Yeah, I like that idea with the wrasses.

I like the dusky jawfish over the pearly jawfish because they are hardier and a bit bigger (at least their mouths) and seem to be able to defend themselves better (or at least appear tougher than they are to other fish). They also seem to build, maintain, and stay in one burrow longer than the pearly jaws do, at least that was the case with my tanks years ago. I'd be open to adding both, but I was afraid that the pearly jaws would be too stressed with the queen and the wrasses in there.

Yeah, about cuttin' out the middle man, that sounds great!

My goal was to have a tank up and running by now, but family circumstances and obligations have delayed my plan. All is not lost though, this gives me more time to research and make decisions. I'm hoping to have a tank ordered/purchased by the end of October and my stand built as well.

I can't wait!

 

[mattsilvester]

Nearly did a carribean biotope a couple of years back. I bascked out of it in the end, because it came to pass that the 300gal (8'x2'x2.5') I had planned wasn't going to materialise, and I didn't feel I had the sapce for the fish I wanted :-(
In the end, I ended up with a 180..........

I obviously think the idea of a carribean biotope is great - and your system sounds great too. I really live the 4'x4' foot print idea - there are some that would say the queen needs the 8' length - but I would suspect those that say that have not seen how big a 4'x4' footprint actually is - and with effective aquascaping, in my view, you can actually make a more beneficial enironment.

My only area for concern would be that while the tank is gonna be big, so as some of the fish you mention..... 2 atlantic blue tangs, and a queen angel....... to be honest I would be concerned there..... in this instance, I think more length on the tank would be better..... personally, in this situation I would choose either the queen OR the trio of tangs - not both - I just think it is going to lead to conlict, and I think 4 open water active large bodied fish in a 4'x4' tank is going to be pushing it a little.

By the way, I don't think I saw teh Cuban Hogfish mentioned anywhere????? Could have missed it

If you do a search for "carribean" and use my username, you will find the thread I did back in 2002.

Just my thoughts, hope it helps.

Matt

 

[Mike4284m]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8237107#post8237107 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mattsilvester
By the way, I don't think I saw teh Cuban Hogfish mentioned anywhere????? Could have missed it

Its funny you should say that because I almost made the same suggestion. I just didn't know enough about them.

 

[Chasmodes]

Good point on the 4' X 4'... I'm not sure what would be worse for an adult queen, 8' X 24" or 4' X 4', LOL.

I've been following the thread on the DIY plywood tank. My problem is that it would be tough if not impossible to get an 8' tank downstairs. Building one would be an option if I could do it on the spot. Hmmm... I'd still like the depth of the 4'. I'd have to investigate a longer tank..

8' X 4' X 30" sounds very appealing. I'm a bit concerned over the increased cost of running such a big tank. I'm on well water, so the cost of water isn't an issue. I wonder how much more electricity it will take over that of running a 300g tank? If it's not much more, then I should get a tank as big as I can. I've been kind of intimidated by going larger than 300g (honestly, when I started researching this I wanted a 220g, but felt the queen angel needed more room, so I'm back in the same dilemma). It's evolving from my dream tank to my monster tank :eek2:

I really appreciate the advice. I'm open to a hogfish, just as long as they are compatible with my list above. Jawfish are kind of skittish with the wrasses though, and I was under the impression that hogfish are more aggressive than the blueheads, but I could be wrong about that.

 

[mattsilvester]

well the queen angel is the whole reason I knocked the idea of a carribean biotope on the head. I knew I couldn't get the tank it really needed, and without a queen I didn't see the point - for me personally the whole point of the carribean was a queen.

 

[Chasmodes]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8240874#post8240874 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mattsilvester
the whole point of the carribean was a queen.

Exactly!

I'm will start off with a youngster and raise it...that's half the fun watching the color change. I had a blue angel years ago and it was awesome, but it just outgrew my tank so I had to trade it in.

I have wondered if duplicating their natural environment as much as possible would lead to longer healthier lives (in addition to good husbandry) as opposed to mixing species from around the world together, that perhaps the fish in a specific biotope may be less stressed and healthier. But then I have to remind myself that it probably doesn't matter, that those types of ideas are not really easy to test, it's a closed system no matter how we cut it, and that it probably is a bit neurotic on my part...kind of like keeping my magazine issues on a shelf in order title and by date.

Plus, if I wanted a Pacific tank or a Red Sea tank, it gives me more reason to convince my wife that I need yet another tank! All I have to do is get her interested in some of the fish that I want!!!!!!!!!:lol:

 

[Chasmodes]

I was reading on GARF about constructing a plywood tank...concerns about that are health issues. My basement and rec room are not ventilated all that well. I'd have to find some sort of way to do that. There is a back door though...hmmm.

Also, it may take me more time to get a plywood tank made and set up if I go that route. If I can pay and have a tank made that will fit through my doors and downstairs, I could have this set up done a lot sooner...

I think that this will be in wall if I go the plywood route. The only thing I don't like about them is that it's also fun to watch fish and marine critters from the long end of the tank. They appear to come out of nowhere on long tanks...I'd miss that somewhat. But, with a 4' width, I think that feeling can be had from the front viewing panel too.

I'm going to start shopping around for ideas and equipment in the next 10 days or so. Time to get this project going.

Sidewinder770 used foam on his reef tank. I'm liking that idea with the plywood. It wouldn't appear like a box filled with LR if I could "sculpt" the walls with the foam, making ledges and such. It's also a good way to hide hardware and plumbing.

 

[Chasmodes]

Revised planned stocking:
1 Queen Angelfish
1 French Angelfish
3 Atlantic Blue Tang
1 Swissguard Basslet
1 Cherub Angelfish
8 Blue Reef Chromis
4 Bluehead Wrasse (1 male and 3 females?)
1 Red Spotted Hawkfish
1 Molly Miller Blenny
1 Seaweed Blenny
1 Atlantic Longnose Butterflyfish
1 Sharpnose Puffer (Canthigaster rostrata)

I wanted some jawfish, but I'm worried that they will be too timid, plus, I may never see them (as advised earlier). Still no hogfish.

My solution to the jawfish: I was thinking that once I had this system going that I'd start a Pacific or Red Sea reef, not as big, but with perhaps a few blue spotted jawfish and other non-aggressive reef safe fish. I'm also considering a nano tank...I might go ahead and do that now just to get my blood pumped while I wait for my big tank project to unfold. I've got a lot of work to do!

Also, for my larger system, I saw mention of a product that combines filtration and RO/DI... It's called Dialyseas (there is a website). The total cost for a system like this in my large tank would be about $2,700, pretty expensive. But, at the same time, it's designed specifically for aquaria, probably relatively painless to install, and overall seems like a pretty good product, plus incorporates autotop off and auto salt mixing (I think). Anyone have experience with this product? Is it worth the investment?

 

[Chasmodes]

Clean Up Crew...since hermits and snails will be wrasse and puffer food, I'll go with the Caribbean Deer Cowries as my clean up crew.

 

[No Worries1979]

I don't know much about the porkfish, but where's your porkfish?