Carpenter's wrasse whirling

[spleen93]

Hi - I have a Carpenter's wrasse that was added to my main tank after 4 wks of QT. Did fine in QT - ate well, fattened up, was doing great. Added to my main tank and after a week or so, started to notice that he was having difficulty maintaining equilibrium. Would often end up whirling in the water, swimming upside down, would often end up under the rocks upside down. Was still eating and then started to have difficulty eating - would still try to strike at food but would be aiming 2-3 mm off to the side of the food (almost like he had lost depth perception). Was wondering if the flow in my tank was interfering with him and started to turn off all pumps while feeding but still problem continues. He has been transferred to my refugium at this with even weaker current but continues to have difficulty and is now showing signs of wasting (pinching at the stomach). He does not have any visible lesions and his eyes are still clear. He still watches things intently but does spend a lot of time upside down on the bottom. He does seem to be breathing rather hard. Any ideas on what's wrong with him and how I might be able to cure him? Thanks in advance for any help! All tank parameters are normal at this time (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, alk, calcium all within expected results) - other fish in the tank are not affected with no signs of disease (one green clown goby). I feed a rotating cycle of frozen mysis, enriched brine, cyclops with occ. Ocean Nutrition flake food and Cyclopeeze wafer all of which he has eaten.

sg 1.025
pH 8.45
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 2-3
alk 10 dkh
calcium 425 (just to be complete)

Spleen

 

[Ryanqk]

Same here, Same symptoms and everything, all my wrasses died. I had alot of other fish in close contact too.... I am completely lost as to what happened. No more wrasses for at least 2 months for me.... I tried copper, paraguard, garlic, antibiotics, and clout to no avail....

 

[spleen93]

Well, I've moved him to a hospital tank and started dosing with Furan-2 (what antibiotic that I had at the time). Initially seemed to have some response and he did try chasing some live brine that I threw in to help feed him ... but we're now on day 4 of treatment and he's looking like he's fading. Now instead of lying on his back, he's lying on his side and looking pale. (sigh) I'm going to be really bummed if he dies.

My sympathies on your loss as well.

Spleen

 

[Ryanqk]

I would encourage you to not replace him immeadiatly and send the body to a lab. It seems this might be an emerging disease, maybe wrasse specific, no one knows anything about it, but I can tell its the same disease. Maybe a lab will be able to tell us what is killing our wrasses, if i had thought of it i would have done it myself. Give your tank some fallow time before replacing him, ill wait at least 3 months till i replace any wrasse.

 

[spleen93]

Any idea as to what lab I could send him to? He's crawled into a piece of PVC that I left in the hospital tank as shelter - everytime I peer into the end with a flashlight, there he is still looking back at me. Not breathing as hard as before but still lying on his side. This is technically day 5 of treatment when I'm supposed to stop dosing, do a water change, and put in carbon to take out the med. Not sure what I should do based on his situation. I'll probably try stopping the treatment at this time since it really didn't seem to make any substantial difference and see what happens. Good idea about waiting to add any more wrasses for now.

Spleen

 

[wan 2 B reef'in]

Just wondering, when you had it in QT what was the SG of the QT? Was it the same as the main tank?

If you had it in hyposalinity and then just moved him over to your main tank it could've been, or was a major shock to him which could explain the problem now.

 

[Ryanqk]

These same symptoms were exhibited by other wrasses in other conditions, the symptoms are the same down to the tee. I doubt it has anything to do with hypo/hyper salinity shock, as mine were always in stable parameters. I will see if anyone can reccomend a lab. With permission i'd like to use your above comments/descriptions to post threads along with my descriptions to conduct further research on this....
Maybe if we ask around we can find others with this problem, and maybe find out if we had a distributor in common. See if you can find out where the fish came from.
Thanks
Ryan

 

[spleen93]

Ryan - will ask at my LFS next time I'm there as to where my wrasse came from.

w2br - my wrasse was not in hyposalinity. The QT tank water comes from my main tank when I do water changes and 25% water changes were done once a week so parameters between the two were very similar.

Now he's not eating and still lying on his side at the bottom of the tank. Antibiotic treatment completed and removed with carbon and water change. But color remains good and he's still alert. I'm wondering as to when to throw in the towel and euthanize him ...

Spleen

 

[Ryanqk]

If this is indeed the same disease, the fish will remain alive for a very long time in this condition, sort of like partial paralyisis. I euthanized some of mine after a couple weeks like this but in your case it may be more helpfull to keep him alive as long as possible, or at least until we find a lab, then the body could be preserved in alcohol or some kind of preservative until the lab can do an autopsy.
Ryan

 

[spleen93]

Well, my wrasse passed on early this morning ... (sniff) It may have been secondary to its inability to feed (it hadn't eaten at all in the last 2-3 days) and overall weakness.

A search on Wet Web actually revealed some similar cases:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/wrasdisfaqs.htm

The parts about the blind bird wrasse and the sick coris wrasse sounded familiar. Unfortunately, because of the lack of facilities, I won't be able to preserve the body. I'm going to hold off on trying any more wrasses for at least a couple of months.

Spleen

 

[Ryanqk]

sorry to hear, hopefully we can identify the source (supplier) becuase this kills every wrasse in contact with a sick one it seems.

 

[spleen93]

Thanks Ryan - I've yet to make it back to the LFS that sold me the wrasse but it's definitely on my list of things to do. Please keep me posted if you hear anything more about this subject.

Spleen

 

[Ryanqk]

I ended up at the LFS that sold me the wrasses that died/started the infection. He says he suspected one of two or a combination of factors may have cuased it. First he says the fish he was selling me came from figi/tonga and that they are cuaght at depths of around 50+ feet down, he suspected that rapid decompression AKA the bends were what affected the fish, however that does not explain why the effects of bends would not be evident until we get them to our tanks. Secondly he suspected after smelling something in the shiping water that some chemical may have been used to catch these admittedly nearly impossible to catch fish. These chemicals would remain in the fishes body where the fish is unable to flush its system of the chemical, thereby cuasing a cumulative effect. This also does not fully explain the susecptability of other wrasses from other origins/sources who were also becoming affected. Anyways it sounds like this may have something to do with it, but i'm interested in finding out how these symptoms appeared in my other wrasses not from him, that appeared to be healthy until contact with these others
Ryan

 

[spleen93]

Doh! I was there today and I forgot to ask. I'll be back next week and I'll make sure that I ask this time around. I agree that those two explanation don't quite entirely explain the situation.

Spleen

 

[techreef]

I'm suffering through this with my Carpenter's Flasher as well. blotchy paleness, no appetite, hovering with the top of his nose out of the water, yet his eyes are still active. I have mine in hypo due to an ich infection, so we know that whatever is affecting my guy is not dependent on high salinity water.

 

[anomie]

Honestly it kinda sounds like the weird disease is an internal parasite/worm that may have gained an advantage due to stress. Try something that helps deworm fish. I have 3 fairys and had a flasher. Never had problems with any disease after Qt'ing for 4 weeks. Hopefully someone with more experience/info could chime in.

Early on, I was told that a large number of wild caught fish have internal parisites and worms. I would also talk with Kelly Jediki (sp?) on marine depot forums about your experiences and see what her take is on these situations. She was a guest speaker locally and I was very impressed with her depth of knowledge in this area.

 

[Hugeness]

Guys this is simple... this is just swim bladder infection. It happens sometimes and you treat it with antibiotics in a sick tank. Its usually a gram negative bacteria, so use the appropriate antibiotic. If that one doesn't work then switch to a gram positive.

 

[spleen93]

Antibiotics have been tried for this. Hasn't worked to date. I've tried Furan-2 and Ryan has tried Clout. I was going to try erythromycin (maracyn) but couldn't find a source in time (found some anecdoctal reports on the web reporting some success with this - so techreef, you might want to give this a try if you can find some).

I'm inclined to believe anomie that it might be internal parasites. If I had been able to get praziquantel early enough so that I could feed my wrasse it, it might have made a difference.

Spleen

 

[techreef]

i do indeed have maracyn. maybe i'll try that then. "unfortunately" my wrasse has colored back up and is swimming normally again in the QT tank, so I'm a little hesitant to medicate the hypo tank. he's in there for 2 more weeks tho, so I'll keep an eye out and medicate if he turns for the worse again.

 

[spleen93]

That's definitely NOT "unfortunately". Congrats on your wrasse's recovery - best of wishes to him/her (hermaphroditic fishes that they are)

Spleen