Confusing chemistry ....

[ronert]

OK ... here goes ...


Back story:
I had been using Kent Ca/Iodine/Stront additives and (someewhat blindly) using the dosing instructions on the container. Approx 10% water changes every couple of weeks. When I decided to change over to Randy's 3 part a few weeks back, I started testing Carb Hardness and Ca. (I know, I should have been doing this all along, right? I'm learning ... I think ...)

About 3 weeks ago:
Sal: 1.023
pH: 7.9
Amm: 0 mg/L
Nitrite: 0 mg/L
Nitrate: 40 mg/L (This was due to the skimmer not working. A good cleaning fixed that ...)
dKH: 6 (Carbonate Hardness, German degrees)
Ca: 660 ppm
Mg: 1350 ppm

Today:
Sal: 1.023
pH: 8.2
Amm: 0 mg/L
Nitrite: 0 mg/L
Nitrate: 10 mg/L
dKH: 10 (Carbonate Hardness, German degrees)
Ca: 630 ppm
Mg: 1350 ppm

(1) I'm concerned with a 10 reading on nitrates, but it is coming down from 40 at least. I have a LARGE bio load, mostly fish, but some coral too. Once the 75 gets set up, the herd will be separated ...

(2) Nothing looks stressed. My readings have been this way for about a month. Should I be concerned with a Ca reading this high? What I have been doing is dosing ONLY the Alk part for while in the hopes that the Ca reading would come down. It hasn't really moved at all in 3 weeks.

(3) I'm still not sure what the difference is between Alk and Carb Hardness. I don't have an Alk test kit. Are these two redundant, or should I also have an Alk test kit?

So I'm confused ... Any suggestions? I know water changes will help, but I have been shying away from them in hopes of getting a better understanding of the chemistry first.

- ted

 

[kaptken]

Hi Ted!
Yes I went thru a few things too with alk and ca when i made the switch to Randy's 3 part. Probably because the seachem I used previously has some other compounds of calc and alk other than the straight calcium chloride and sodium carbonate/bicarbonate. I end up using more of the 3 part that the comercial stuff. but i made the adjustment.

I take it your tank is not a big calcium consumer. You must have mostly soft corals and leathers, polyps? the higher nitrates will slow up the coraline from taking on calcium too i suppose. How is the phosphate level? Your spec numbers look just fine except the nitrate and unknown phosphate level. those two can prevent coral from taking in the calcium to grow and thus lower the tank calcium level.

the softies seem to like a little higher nitrate and phosphate but that higher level prevents LPS AND SPS calcium growth. or so they say. My 75 was up to 10 ppm recently , but i have been cleaning up the silty detritus that had accumulated over a long time which clogs up the sandbed, and now the plenum has kicked in again and dropped the nitrates to less than 1 PPM, and the SPS are looking great again.

my tank is heavy on SPS and eats about a heaping tablespoon of dry calcium chloride (CFORCE) a day. about 20-25 ppm per day?. Do you have a plenum sandbed, DSB or just a bit of gravel? I like plenums for denitrating.

 

[firecrackerbob]

HI Ted,
Here is a link to reef keepings article on recomended parameters- I also reccomend reading up on as many of these articels in the chemistry section as you can --they are really great!:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

I generally follow those recommended settings.

1-I think that is a bit higer than most people like to see. if nothing is too stressed then its probably not in the range for freaking out, but worth corrective action. is your tank pretty well established? if you have had the setup for a while, I would probably reccomend a fuge with macro algea and to skim as much as possible. let me know if you need some cheto...

2- from what I have read, Higher Ca concentrations are not really life threatening. 600s are high and I would probably do a water change and cut back on my dosing, but I dont think it will hurt anyting if you wait it out...

3- if im wrong here others please chime in, but to my knowlege, they are the same thing, or at least two ways to represent the overall carbonate avalaiblitly in the water -- dhk and meq. and again, I think your paramameters are in the safe zone.

From what you have lsited here, it sounds like you are on your way to becomming a reef chem wiz.. and dont worry, I didnt do intensive testing for the first year or so I was in the hobby, and I have a chemistry background... just lazy i guess and didnt want to invest in the test kits..lol sounds like you are testing the same parameters that I am.. thinking of adding strontium ot the list though.
Eric

 

[ronert]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9085570#post9085570 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kaptken
Hi Ted!
I take it your tank is not a big calcium consumer. You must have mostly soft corals and leathers, polyps? the higher nitrates will slow up the coraline from taking on calcium too i suppose. How is the phosphate level? Your spec numbers look just fine except the nitrate and unknown phosphate level. those two can prevent coral from taking in the calcium to grow and thus lower the tank calcium level.

Softies, leathers, and a large colony of sun coral. The sun coral tend to drive me toward having too much food in the tank - another thing I am changing soon. As for phosphates, I don't have a test kit for that yet, Any recommendations? Salifert? Other?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9085570#post9085570 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kaptken
the softies seem to like a little higher nitrate and phosphate but that higher level prevents LPS AND SPS calcium growth. or so they say. My 75 was up to 10 ppm recently , but i have been cleaning up the silty detritus that had accumulated over a long time which clogs up the sandbed, and now the plenum has kicked in again and dropped the nitrates to less than 1 PPM, and the SPS are looking great again.

my tank is heavy on SPS and eats about a heaping tablespoon of dry calcium chloride (CFORCE) a day. about 20-25 ppm per day?. Do you have a plenum sandbed, DSB or just a bit of gravel? I like plenums for denitrating.

I have sand, but not a lot. Just enough to cover the bottom. I'm basically moving everything from this tank (about 50G) to a 75G, as soon as the room is ready. Plans for that tank are a fuge (in a 10 or 15G) and possibly a sepatate DSB in a 5G bucket. Right now, I'm skimming 24/7 with an ESU/Coralife skimmer.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9085645#post9085645 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by firecrackerbob
HI Ted,
Here is a link to reef keepings article on recomended parameters- I also reccomend reading up on as many of these articels in the chemistry section as you can --they are really great!:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

I generally follow those recommended settings.

1-I think that is a bit higer than most people like to see. if nothing is too stressed then its probably not in the range for freaking out, but worth corrective action. is your tank pretty well established? if you have had the setup for a while, I would probably reccomend a fuge with macro algea and to skim as much as possible. let me know if you need some cheto...

2- from what I have read, Higher Ca concentrations are not really life threatening. 600s are high and I would probably do a water change and cut back on my dosing, but I dont think it will hurt anyting if you wait it out...

3- if im wrong here others please chime in, but to my knowlege, they are the same thing, or at least two ways to represent the overall carbonate avalaiblitly in the water -- dhk and meq. and again, I think your paramameters are in the safe zone.

From what you have lsited here, it sounds like you are on your way to becomming a reef chem wiz.. and dont worry, I didnt do intensive testing for the first year or so I was in the hobby, and I have a chemistry background... just lazy i guess and didnt want to invest in the test kits..lol sounds like you are testing the same parameters that I am.. thinking of adding strontium ot the list though.
Eric

Tank has been up since about July, Eric. So I wouldn't say it's anywhere near mature. As for the fuge, that's the plan for the 75. Once that move is done, I want to get one on this tank as well. It's a small tank (30x12 footprint), so I'm thinking of a HOB fuge down the road. I have the DIY parts for this, just nt the time to execute right now.

As for parameters, those are what I'm shooting for as well. I'm also playing with keeping my parameters on-line as well. You cn see the params and goals here.

- ted

 

[kaptken]

That's good Ted. a couple fuges should help keep the nitrates and phosphates down. then you might start consuming more calcium . my oldest tank, the 75 reef has been running for 8 years with a 4 -5 inch sand bed over a plenum and usually keeps it low on nutrients. i just neglected cleaning for a couple years while i wasn't feeling well. but have syphoned out a lot of fine detretus and carbonate silt which was plugging it up and turning it into a fine sand type DSB. they need to keep the space open between the gravel .

I have been using a simple RED SEA test kit. not very often. just test now and then if something looks wrong. I have a hagen kit i havent tried yet. but some good chaeto should help out a lot. I have 14 fish in the 75, and a lot of rock and corals. so its a pretty heavy load.

I just put new lamps in the VHO Hood so now the soft corals are really popping and the SPS are getting bright.