Convince me I dont need a 660 for my T5s

[Horace]

I curently run 6x54w with Icecap relfectors and Triad ballasts over my 75g. I run 3 B+, 2 AB, 1 GE. I have an SPS dominated tank, but most of them are frags at this stage. I have a few larger colonies of digis that are doing pretty well since putting the T5s in. Both larger ones are purple in color, where as they were crap brown when they went in the tank. However, I am considering buying an icecap for 4 out of 6 bulbs. Possibly even dropping down to 4x54 with the 660. What I want is some of you folks running T5s out there to convince me that I am good, or I should move to the 660. Lets hear it

 

[RichConley]

Re: Convince me I dont need a 660 for my T5s

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6846084#post6846084 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Horace
Both larger ones are purple in color, where as they were crap brown when they went in the tank.

If it aint broke, don't fix it.

 

[perpetual98]

What RichConley said.

On the other hand, my 4x54W tank with the 660 is just as bright as my 6x54W tank that is powered with regular ballasts.

 

[RichConley]

perpetual, the 660 overdrives them, so hes probably going to be using about the same electricity, if not more, and is going to burn out bulbs quicker.

 

[Horace]

Yes, HOWEVER, when you overdrive it makes the bulbs brighter which means the light should penetrate better. Simply adding more bulbs doesnt really increase intensity, it just increases coverage. By using the icecap it will drive the bulbs more intense thus giving more PAR, especially deeper in the tank. I have a feeling that 4x54w w/ a 660 puts out more PAR than does 6x54w normally driven even though the total watts used is about the same (4x78w = 312w, 6x54 = 324w). Think about it this way, you could put a ton of PC over a tank that adds up to 400w, but there is no way that the tank would be even close to as bright as a single 400w halide or a T5 if you could run one at 400w. Plus the PC still wont penetrate to the bottom very well where the 400w will penetrate all the way to the bottom no problem.

Does this change any of your minds?

 

[perpetual98]

Oh, I'm well aware that the 660 overdrives the bulbs. The IceCap ballast also doesn't reduce bulb life that dramatically either. At least it wouldn't reduce bulb life as much as if I hooked a Triad 54W ballast to some 24W bulbs.

If you want brighter bulbs, you could run Ozone too. LOL Just kidding...

 

[mpcart]

Re: Convince me I dont need a 660 for my T5s

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6846084#post6846084 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Horace
What I want is some of you folks running T5s out there to convince me that I am good, or I should move to the 660. Lets hear it

I run 6 x 39W with Triad Ballasts and all my SPS are growing like crazy. I run 2 B+, 2 AB, and 2 GE.

-Mike

 

[Horace]

mpcart, Do you have any before/after pictures. Some folks idea of growing like crazy is different than others. Could you give us some scale?

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6848123#post6848123 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Horace
Simply adding more bulbs doesnt really increase intensity, it just increases coverage.

Not completely true. One of the great things about Fluoro tubes is they do EXACTLY that. If you put two bulbs next to each other, their coverage overlaps, and the area under both bulbs is brighter because of it.

Take a single 54w T5, and measure PAR 18" under it. Now take a 6x54w setup, and measure PAR 18" under the middle bulb, and I bet you get 4 times as much, minimum.

Overdriven bulbs run less efficiently, and burn out faster. The only real reason (IMHO) to overdrive bulbs is if you dont have space to fit more.

 

[Horace]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6848259#post6848259 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
Not completely true. One of the great things about Fluoro tubes is they do EXACTLY that. If you put two bulbs next to each other, their coverage overlaps, and the area under both bulbs is brighter because of it.

Take a single 54w T5, and measure PAR 18" under it. Now take a 6x54w setup, and measure PAR 18" under the middle bulb, and I bet you get 4 times as much, minimum.

Overdriven bulbs run less efficiently, and burn out faster. The only real reason (IMHO) to overdrive bulbs is if you dont have space to fit more.

You may be right, I really dont know for sure, but my statement I made before was what I had heard was true about them in the past. There are only a few folks who have actually done indepth research into T5 PAR output under different setups/bulbs/ballasts. That person is The Grim Reefer who is now "moved on". I have contacted him again, and hopefully I can get his opinion on this.

 

[RichConley]

Either way Horace, unless you're unhappy with what you have now, leave it alone. Even if there is an upgrade, it is going to be small, and not worth the cash and time.

 

[Horace]

Well I am not super thrilled with my growth I have been getting on some things. I know lights is far from the only factor, but I think I have most of the other factors covered fairly well. My nutrients are all very low and I think I have plenty of flow. Two Seio 820s and a Mag 9.5 on my 75g. For that reason I am looking at bumping my light intensity.

 

[dvanacker]

Grim has alread run this test and shown that IC660 ever so slightly more effiecient. Here are the resulsts

I ran the 4x54 watt T5 system with the ballasts plugged into a wattage meter to get a true reading of the power usage.

Dynamic Spec T5 ballasts

Wattage used 232

PAR Produced at Sandbed 135

.58 PAR per watt used


Ice Cap 660

Wattage used 303

Par produced at sandbed 183

.6 PAR per watt used

 

[mpcart]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6848211#post6848211 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Horace
mpcart, Do you have any before/after pictures. Some folks idea of growing like crazy is different than others. Could you give us some scale?

Sorry, no growth pictures. I suppose growth rates are subjective and are dependent on lots of things other than lighting. All I can say is that I'm happy with my T5's and any upgrade I might do would be to MH instead of upgrading my ballasts.

I can see some growth on my SPS every day - and that is good enough for me.

Good Luck and let us know what you decide to do.

-Mike

 

[Horace]

Thx man, That thread is probably burried 100 pages deep now. That is a pretty damn big difference in PAR IMO. The question is weather or not its worth it or even needed?

 

[dvanacker]

So it seems a 4 bulb overdriven is really similar to a 6 bulb normal driven. With that being said it is not worth it to go IC660 if you already have your 6 bulb setup and going. Unless you thought you needed more light (wanted extremely colorful SPS at bottom of tank) and wanted to run 4 of the 6 overdriven.

But there are plenty of people with great successfull SPS reefs with nothing but normal driven T5HO's. I myself have a 55g with 4x54w normal driven with ICECAP SLRS which is 12"wide so basically the same as your setup that is 18" wide. Here is a pic below....keep in mind the tank is only 9months old and this is my first crack at salt.

 

[Horace]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6849366#post6849366 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mpcart
Sorry, no growth pictures. I suppose growth rates are subjective and are dependent on lots of things other than lighting. All I can say is that I'm happy with my T5's and any upgrade I might do would be to MH instead of upgrading my ballasts.

I can see some growth on my SPS every day - and that is good enough for me.

Good Luck and let us know what you decide to do.

-Mike

Did they grow like that even as frags? Many of mine are frags at this stage, and while I see growth, its not super noticable each day thats for sure. I see some decent growth at about 1 week. Im lucky to get 1/8" growth every 2 weeks on pretty much everything. Even my caps which supposedly should be growing like weeds have not really taken off to the point where I would say they are growing "fast".

 

[Horace]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6849401#post6849401 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dvanacker
So it seems a 4 bulb overdriven is really similar to a 6 bulb normal driven. With that being said it is not worth it to go IC660 if you already have your 6 bulb setup and going. Unless you thought you needed more light (wanted extremely colorful SPS at bottom of tank) and wanted to run 4 of the 6 overdriven.

But there are plenty of people with great successfull SPS reefs with nothing but normal driven T5HO's. I myself have a 55g with 4x54w normal driven with ICECAP SLRS which is 12"wide so basically the same as your setup that is 18" wide. Here is a pic below....keep in mind the tank is only 9months old and this is my first crack at salt.

Your in about the exact same boat as me then. My tank is also about 8-9 months old and this is my first salt tank. How big were those frags when you got them? Do you have any before after pictures?

 

[dvanacker]

SPS growth is like an exponatial curve IMHO. Frags grow slower because they have less resourses to grow quickly.

Zoo's and almost any colony of coral are pretty much the same way...if you think about it people and bacteria too.

 

[perpetual98]

You're going to be disappointed if you expect to see growth every day. Hair algae is about the only thing that I can see daily growth on. lol