coral and light/flow level

[reef tank 2.0]

when you are buying/placing coral, do you place them based off the par readings, or do you place them based off of low, medium, or high light?

There has got to be an easier way of finding a coral a home, rather than constantly moving it around the tank hoping it likes it. Maybe that's the fun of having coral. But from what I can tell, you want to place it, and leave it alone. I constantly fight with trying to find the right flow/light for each piece of coral.

I have (3) hydra 26 HD's on my 130 gallon. and I have (5) 1500 hydor koralia power heads. My lights are run at roughly 50-60% capacity. No where near maxed out. I have lost corals due to bleaching. Don;t quite understand that one. When I was looking in to lights, I was told, for the size tank I have, I should use the Hydra 52's in order to grow all types of coral. I refused to get that large, and I stuck with the 26's. With my 26's not running nearly at full capacity, I could only imagine what the 52's would do. Those lights would have to be completely off to avoid bleaching. the dimensions of my tank point towards 52's, but all of my coral disagree. my tank dims are 6ft long, 18" deep, and 24" high (130g)

Maybe there are other things that cause corals to bleach, if so, please share.

Would low/high alk cause corals to bleach? For the longest time, my cal has been at 400-420, mag has been around 1300+, and my alk was at 8.3. As of late, the Alk has dropped to 7.7. But that alk change happened way after losing the corals to bleaching. I will begin dosing after my treatment of bryopsis is over (roughly a week).

Maybe dosing is all I need, but as of right now, I have a lot of my corals under a rock in order for it to be happy. My light levels are low, as I've stated, I find it hard to believe that every coral needs to be under a rock or practically in the sand in order for it to grow

 

[RobZilla04]

IMO if all the corals appear to be happier in the low light portions of the tank this would tell me that your lighting is too intense. It can take significant time for the corals to get acclimated to your lights. 50-60% can be way too high depending on the coral and depth. Also you can adjust the different color channels.

I doubt I'm telling you something that you don't already know. Sometimes it takes a reminder that your livestock will tell you what they desire, not the other way around.

 

[reef tank 2.0]

I get that. It just doesn't add up. size of tank and the amount of light I should need.

Once I begin dosing, I'll continue to see how things go.

I thought of replacing the hydors with the gyre 230 as well. To give me a more uniform flow rather than a beam of flow. but that would change the flow completely and would result in moving the coral once again. smh

 

[mcgyvr]

Can you show a picture of the bleached corals?
What type of corals?


Many people IMO have way too much light as is..
Any coral should be very happy with 200 PAR.. Those running 5-6-7-800 levels just have WAY too much light IMO.. But the corals can/do adapt..

Also.. What are your nitrate/phosphate levels..
Many of my SPS corals will start to "whiten up" when nitrate levels get over 10-15 or so..

 

[reef tank 2.0]

the bleached coral is months ago, long gone. One that I recall off the top of my head was a gatorade birdsnest. It was doing really well for the first few months, then it went down hill quickly. I lost one of my acans, the second acan i have is doing really well still. there were a couple others, but these were my two big ones i hated to lose.

I think I will try and get my hands on a par meter to get readings. That will at least let me know where I stand on levels.

you may have hit on a topic that might answer all this.
I have been fighting with high trates since day one. they have always been 50-75ppm. not .50/.75, but 50-75. My phosphates have always read zero. Was using salifert but could never get a reading i understood. So I purchased the hannah checker for it, and same, it read zero. So I stopped testing for it. It always read zero. I THINK I have narrowed my trate issue to over feeding. I have decreased that over the past 2 weeks or so. I will continue that, as well as keeping up on my bi-weekly water changes. I'll see how much it changes as time goes on. I did test for trates last night, and the color output was definitely a lot lighter than in the past. So it definitely went down. But still high. I have GFO running as well. I started that reactor up a week to two weeks ago. I definitely don't have dinoflagellates since I started the GFO up. Maybe it's a coincidence, but my sand is clean, so that's good. (off topic, I know)

Once my bryopsis treatment of flucon is over, i will do another water change and see where I'm at.

 

[RobZilla04]

This is partially what gets me. Users "say" nothing has changed, yet no recent accurate readings.... Definitely don't wanna get into any sort of battle here. But get some test results.

Anytime something starts to show visual signs of abnormal appearance = time to test. Keep a log of everything you do other than feed. If your feeding amount or frequency changes, log that too. Nothing in a reef tank happens fast. We should all know this. So by the time we see something is off, the cause could be weeks or more past.

 

[reef tank 2.0]

This is partially what gets me. Users "say" nothing has changed, yet no recent accurate readings....

OK.....

nothing has changed till the last week or two. trates are lowering and alk has dropped to high 7's. prior to that, here is what parameters have always read till the last week or two:

Ammonia - 0
nitrites - 0
nitrates - 50-75
alk - 8.3
mag - 1300-1350 range
cal 400-420
temp - 79-80

I think I have all it covered. ammonia and nitrites are the only things I didn't talk about.

but the corals I lost were months ago when params are what were shown above. I just now acted on fixing whatever the problem is once I saw the alk drop. which will be addressed in the next week or so.

 

[RobZilla04]

Nitrates are high which you've already said you are aware of. The new lower (7's) Alk is low. Correct those two slowly and monitor.

You can achieve both at the same time if you start with a decent (15-20%) water change using Instant Ocean salt.

EDIT: Back to the lights, I see in your avatar your LED's appear to be about 6" above the water line. That definitely explains the reason most of the corals are seeking lower light. Try reducing the light intensity by 20% across all channels.

 

[reef tank 2.0]

I have been doing a 28% water change every two weeks and nitrates never dropped, till recently. I'm hoping by the decreased feeding and the continued water changes, it will slowly lower.
always have used IO salt

as for the lights, my current settings are:

UV - 30%
V - 30%
RY - 71%
B - 71%
R - 5%
G - 3%
WH - 15%

 

[mcgyvr]

Nitrates that high are just about guaranteed to cause problems and be the problem here.. Most certainly with SPS corals,etc..
Until you get them down below 10 don't add anymore as they WILL die the same death..

Time to maybe look into carbon dosing if you aren't already..

But your issue is 100% nitrates IMO...

 

[MHG]

when you are buying/placing coral, do you place them based off the par readings, or do you place them based off of low, medium, or high light?

If I can manage to get the PAR from the tank they were in, then I match the PAR. Turn down my DT lights about 25% and increase them weekly...

 

[reef tank 2.0]

gotcha...I know my trates were/are an issue but I couldn't figure out why. My inverts seem happy, so didn't think much on the coral side of things. Always pointed the finger at the lights.

I'll continue to battle the trates and see what happens. I have also considered doing a remote sand bed to help.......Trying to steer away from carbon dosing for now. There are a couple things I can still try before I go that route.

thanks for the help

 

[mcgyvr]

Fish = no problem with high nitrates
Crabs/snails = not usually a problem but can be in the 50+ range..
Softies = not usually a problem.. they seem to like it but won't grow "as fast" as if your nitrates were lower..
LPS/SPS = don't waste your time/money on them if your nitrates are not low..
IMO.. 25 is upper limit for most LPS but a bit higher can be tolerated and do ok..
10 is the upper limit for most SPS..

Note.. If you keep your ALK higher (11-12,etc. ) you "can" have a little better luck with nigher nitrates..

carbon dosing is SOOOO simple and SO proven.. No idea why anyone would attempt to steer away from it..
Just need a $2 gallon of vinegar and a syringe to get started.. (or dosing pump)
Or course a skimmer is needed to to pull out the excessive/dying/overload of bacteria,etc..

Its too easy to not do it though..

A RDSB "can" certainly work but its not nearly as foolproof/proven as carbon dosing IMO.. It also takes a bit of time to get working well (can be months).. If at all..

I've tried just about everything over the years and carbon dosing is EASILY #1 and my go to..
It just plain works well and is so easy

 

[ajm83]

Fish = no problem with high nitrates
Crabs/snails = not usually a problem but can be in the 50+ range..
Softies = not usually a problem.. they seem to like it but won't grow "as fast" as if your nitrates were lower..
LPS/SPS = don't waste your time/money on them if your nitrates are not low..
IMO.. 25 is upper limit for most LPS but a bit higher can be tolerated and do ok..
10 is the upper limit for most SPS..

Note.. If you keep your ALK higher (11-12,etc. ) you "can" have a little better luck with nigher nitrates..

carbon dosing is SOOOO simple and SO proven.. No idea why anyone would attempt to steer away from it..
Just need a $2 gallon of vinegar and a syringe to get started.. (or dosing pump)
Or course a skimmer is needed to to pull out the excessive/dying/overload of bacteria,etc..

Its too easy to not do it though..

A RDSB "can" certainly work but its not nearly as foolproof/proven as carbon dosing IMO.. It also takes a bit of time to get working well (can be months).. If at all..

I've tried just about everything over the years and carbon dosing is EASILY #1 and my go to..
It just plain works well and is so easy

AAC in Essex, UK run their in store display tank at 20-25. Have a little Google of that and tell me SPS don't do well with a bit of nitrate [emoji6]



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[RobZilla04]

^ Each tank is different and a heavily stocked store DT that has been established for years can tolerate higher nitrates. Along with a higher Alk like mcgyvr mentioned and presto you have your example.

Chemipure Elite is an easy way to add activated carbon and a filter media to help remove nitrates & trace phosphates. This is of course if you'd rather throw in a media bag to a high flow area of your sump rather than manually drop several ml's of vodka/vinegar into your DT daily.

 

[ajm83]

^ Each tank is different and a heavily stocked store DT that has been established for years can tolerate higher nitrates. Along with a higher Alk like mcgyvr mentioned and presto you have your example.

Chemipure Elite is an easy way to add activated carbon and a filter media to help remove nitrates & trace phosphates. This is of course if you'd rather throw in a media bag to a high flow area of your sump rather than manually drop several ml's of vodka/vinegar into your DT daily.

It's only a few months old, they moved locations and restarted it with new rock.

I agree about each tank being different though. I think its more usual to see darkening/browning with high nutrient availability though rather than bleaching isn't it? Certainly I browned mine all out with a nitrate spike! [emoji35] a few stripped from the base up as well

Bleaching I tend to find is down to lighting being too high or nutrients too low

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[mcgyvr]

^ Each tank is different and a heavily stocked store DT that has been established for years can tolerate higher nitrates. Along with a higher Alk like mcgyvr mentioned and presto you have your example.
.

Yes I made a very broad generalization based on my experiences..
And did state that higher alk can help too..

There are quite a few on here to with nitrate levels around the 20-25 mark doing just fine with SPS too.. (Want to say PaulB is one of them)

I just attempted to do a "generic" keep it below this and you are just about guaranteed success..

 

[reef tank 2.0]

the corals that I do have that are thriving in my current conditions are:

Tyree toadstool
Acan
blue trumpet
bright green trumpet
frogspawn
hammer
duncan

I know these are softer corals which is why they may be surviving and growing. but they are all located on or close to the sand