Corals and Ich infection.

[VeL]

Okay, I hope I got your attention.
After having a severe Ich outbreak in my tank and losing some fish (yes it was Ich not Brook), I found out hard way that I must QT every fish. Currently I have a 30 gal hospital tank treating with copper to save at least what left of my lovely pets.
The display will be fallow for 9-10 weeks. We all know that it was documented that it may take up to 72 days for an Ich cyst to hatch. We all know that the cysts attach to rough surfices like sand bed and rocks. And here comes the BIG question. How can we be sure that even though we QT every fish we will not introduce the parasite through corals and/or the rocks they are attached to. Since it may take up to 2 months for the cyst to hatch there is a HUGE chance that the coral/rock/invertebrates could be carrying a cyst. Following the simple logic, in order to have a 100% Ich free tank, we must QT every living organism that goes to DT for at least 9 weeks so we can be sure that the possible Ich cyst hatches and dies. Please correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I know, no coral dip treatments kill Ich cysts along with the parasites they are used for.

P.S.
I've read that many people suggest 3-7 days QT for non fish, but going from the above doesn't that mean they're just counting on pure luck, hoping that they will not introduce a parasite infection. And if that's the case, what is the reason of QT in the first place

 

[Breadman03]

Tagged. I didn't think Ich attached to inverts.

 

[VeL]

Tagged. I didn't think Ich attached to inverts.

They are not infecting them but when the cyst (trophont stage) drops off fish it can go to any surface and settles down there, respectively morph to a Tomont and hatch the Tomities from there. That is my main concern, what happens when a rock that has a trophont cyst enters the DT... well we all know what will happen, however doesn't that mean we have to QT for 9 weeks every rough surface that enters the tank, corals incuded.
I think that is a very important matter to discuss. Everyone here says that when you QT fish properly from day one there is no chance Ich to be introduced to your tank. However I've read about quite a few occasions where people who have strict QT protocols get Ich outbreaks out of nowhere.

 

[Breadman03]

Thanks for the lesson. That is why I'm here>>> :reading:

 

[snorvich]

If you are getting corals from a tank that has fish that are infected, I think you would have to QT the corals for nine weeks to be absolutely sure. However, with corals acquired from sources such as vendors (who do not keep fish in their coral system), I personally dip in Revive or Coral Rx and am confident that no fish parasite is being introduced (that dip does not kill parasites for fish) . For me, the greatest risk is buying corals from fellow reefers who have fish in their system; however that is also most likely the cheapest price.

 

[SueAndHerZoo]

Taggin along, since I've got my fish in a hospital tank with Cupramine and am leaving the DT fallow for 10 weeks. However, I plan on buying a bunch of corals next weekend (to hold me over and keep me amused for this 10 week period) and now have to wonder.......
Sue

 

[flakey]

this is a very valid point, i'm just going through copper treatment with all my fish and keeping my main tank fish free for 8 weeks. I don't really want to go through this process again, so my question is, without being too paranoid:

1. Should I treat all new fish to medication just to be on the safe side? If yes, what medication, as copper may be a little extreme?

2. How should I introduce new corals? Dips/medication and for how long. Being a average hobbyist, I don't have the resources to run a coral QT tank to the same specs as my main tank.

 

[codeblue48]

Tagging along.

 

[snorvich]

this is a very valid point, i'm just going through copper treatment with all my fish and keeping my main tank fish free for 8 weeks. I don't really want to go through this process again, so my question is, without being too paranoid:

1. Should I treat all new fish to medication just to be on the safe side? If yes, what medication, as copper may be a little extreme?

2. How should I introduce new corals? Dips/medication and for how long. Being a average hobbyist, I don't have the resources to run a coral QT tank to the same specs as my main tank.

As I said above, I dip corals but not to eradicate potential fish pests. There enough coral pests to make this worth while.

There is a very valid school of thought that says the prophylactic treatment of fish is a good idea. I think the best approach is to use tank transfer for all new specimens to insure against cryptocaryon irritans.

The initial receiving tank is temp and SG adjusted to the bag water( SG a few points couple of points lower than the bag water is ok but not higher) This obviates the need for drip acclimation and prolonged stays in bag water where pH can rise and ammonia toxicity can increase once the bag is opened.It is particularly important after prolonged stays in the bag.

During the 12 day tank transfer process ( 3 day stays 4 transfers) observe for other maladies. Since there are no meds to interact with in the transfer tanks which contain freshly mixed salt water aged and aerated overnight , you can use an ammonia detoxifier during the 3 day period. Bound copper products for example can't be safely used with ammonia detoxifiers as more toxic free copper occurs with lethal copper toxicity,even though total copper measures the same.

If there is reason to suspect infestation with brooklynella, velvet or flukes , do a formalin bath before starting treatment with copper for velvet, formalin for brooklynella or prazi pro for flukes.

Since not all maladies will present symptoms in the 12 days( flukes can easily be missed ) , it is best to use a larger cycled QT tank for an additional 2 to 4 weeks of observation depending on the condition of the fish with treatment as necessary.

Most fish receive no medications yet all are effectively prophylactically treated for ich,the most common killer

Ammonia is monitored and has never been an issue during the 3 day stay but a detoxifier is added just in case, The cycled tank takes care of itself. BTW there is no need to worry about nitrite or nitrate.

 

[snorvich]

While I know the above sounds complex, it really is not. Once you have an embedded base of fish, which can be expensive, it is essential to protect that embedded base from disease.

 

[VeL]

this is a very valid point, i'm just going through copper treatment with all my fish and keeping my main tank fish free for 8 weeks. I don't really want to go through this process again, so my question is, without being too paranoid:

1. Should I treat all new fish to medication just to be on the safe side? If yes, what medication, as copper may be a little extreme?

2. How should I introduce new corals? Dips/medication and for how long. Being a average hobbyist, I don't have the resources to run a coral QT tank to the same specs as my main tank.

Not being coral expert but an ok flow and ok light and all other parameters "not nasty" and i think the corals, even sps'es could survive 2 months out of the DT.
I myself am going through Cupramine treatement and honestly I do not feel like going through moving all rocks, catching fish, risk their lifes with the copper (I lost a fish already and my yellow tang stopped eaiting since 3 days ago, my diamond goby got nuts and poorly eating when he has no sand in the hospital tank).
And since I started browsing about parasites and treatment, I kept thinking about that even if you do QT every fish you could so easily introduce new infection with just one live rock for example that would not go the full QT period. Maybe that is how Ich still infects people with strict QT protocols. So at least I will try to do 10 weeks QT for anything that enters my DT.

 

[Tat2demon]

The simplest rule is "If its wet, QT for 9 weeks".