Cyano and nutrients

[Radicalrob1982]

Hi all. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Been fighting cyano for about 8 months roughly. Through trial and error I’ve learned that the whole issue must be too high of nutrients and I cannot find any other explanation.

In the past I tried dosing no3 and po4 and kept them steady at 5 ppm no3 and 0.2 to 0.6 po4 approximately for weeks But over time this just made my cyano worse and completely out of control.

Within the last 6 weeks I did a weekly consistent water changes and also bought a tea strainer scoop to remove the cyano mats in between. I was able to get to the point where I only had some left in some dead spots in the tank, and it would take a week even to see the smallest difference in accumulation of cyano. This made me feel that it’s gotta be feeding on any excess nutrients. I was also relieved that I had almost got rid of all of it, and seeing white sand again was at a relief.

Recently took some advice from another reefer saying to increase po4 levels. They said to use chemi clean or another brand of it to knock it back first and then dose po4 up to 0.02 ppm and keep it steady. Since I had it almost eliminated, I didn’t bother with the chemi clean as I tried this in the past but it would only last a few days before it came back. However, since dosing po4 and testing daily over the last week and a half, the cyano is returning with a vengeance again.

My biggest question is how will my tank ever have appropriate nutrient levels if the cyano just uses it all up?

Through nutrient export, I was able to almost get rid of 85 to 90% of it, and it seemed to staying back and not taking hold. But if I dose any kind of nutrients, the cyano just comes back as if I’m dosing cyano steroids lol.

Right now my tank has a light po4 reading but no3 is zero. For now, I am stopping dosing and will continue to do my weekly water changes to get back to my former almost victory.

But I don’t have a solution to ever get the tank to a balanced state

Any help would be appreciated

 

[griss]

Thread 'griss’ Battle with Cyano - all the Things I’ve Tried'

Sep 16, 2022

Anyone have any experience with Dr. Tim’s Cyano Treatment? In 36 years in this hobby I've never had such a problem with cyano. I've been battling it for at least 6 months.

I have a 40BR drilled in the back with an eshopps through the tank overflow. I have (2) 520 gph powerheads and a 230 gph powerhead on a Red Sea wavemaker. 10 gallon sump with filter sock which I change at least twice a week. eshopps cone skimmer rated for 120 gallons. 500 gph return pump. I run GFO and carbon. Lighting is 175 watt MH pendant with 10K bulb and (2) LED actinic light bars. I have about 1"...

• griss
• Replies: 432
• Forum: Reef Discussion

• 

 

[wvned]

I have never figured it out. It comes, it goes. Right now it is gone again after several months of covering everything.
It seems to me almost like having nutrients changing either up or down triggers it. I let my sulphur reactors
take nitrates to zero but removing one and shutting the other almost completely down didn't make it go away again.
I asked my bother in law who deals with it in the Gulf and monitors it from space. The Army Corps of Engineers has no idea what causes it either.
So I dont feel so bad.

 

[Radicalrob1982]

Hi all,

Got my tank back to where I was in reference to cyano. Did enough water changes so now it takes a week roughly for it to start showing up again.

Gonna try adding some starter bacteria to see if I can increase other more favourable organism etc to help try and make the tank more suitable for green algae.

After I get most of the bacteria in I will provide and update on the outcome.

 

[wvned]

You might consider the AF Lifesource, It's mud in a package. The mud is from Fiji.

 

[Radicalrob1982]

Hi.

Hadn’t tested in a while. I did a chemi clean run last week to see it would knock back the damage I did by adding nutrients. Also ran some phosguard to help lower. Combined this with about 4 or 5 water changes.

Surprisingly, I have a no3 reading of 2ppm and a po4 of 0.07 and my cyano is not blooming out of control which is a new thing. Maybe my tank is starting mature in ways I haven’t been able to see.

Will definitely look into that mud stuff. I heard a lot of good reviews on it.

 

[griss]

Your numbers look good. Keep us posted.

 

[Radicalrob1982]

Hi all. Bit of an update.

Said the heck with it and got my nutrients up to 10 no3 and 0.1 po4. Recently started adding starter bacteria. I believe the addition of this created an algae bloom. The first 5 to 10 days things looked like they were getting worse. However and recently, the bloom is still a bit active, but noticed the cyano is kinda dying off.

I will update in a week or so once I retest my nutrients and update on the cyano if it’s receding or getting worse. Could possibly be on to something as maybe the bacteria bloom is outcompeting it someway

 

[Radicalrob1982]

Well so much for that lol.

The reason my cyano was dieing off was because it consuming what I had left over in no3 and po4. Been a week since I dosed up and it’s all gone. No3 zero and po4 0.01

 

[griss]

Great news!!!

 

[Radicalrob1982]

At this point, it looks like in my case that the cyano thrives in my tank when there is excess nutrients. It’s literally impossible to raise nutrients in any way without feeding the cyano.

The difference I’ve recently noticed is that even before, when the cyano was thicker, adding seachem remediation or mb7 didn’t seem to be doing anything. I had to combine that with water changes to see a nutrient reduction to starve it out. However, adding seachem seed, I’m hypothesizing that the anerobic and aerobic bacteria outcompetes the cyano by consuming no3 and po4. This approach was likely effective as I witnessed the bacteria bloom and hence, the over population of bacteria assisted in removing nutrients/cyano without water changes. It seems to me, in my case, seed works much quicker and is ultimately better than mb7 etc.

Now that I believe I may have a method of reducing cyano without water changes using seed, it will be a waiting game to see if that over time, it keeps working the way I believe it is. But something tells me that without nutrients, my corals will suffer unless I feed them lol.

It looks like a never ending battle. But it’s possible that maybe the tank may balance out over time.

I will periodically keep updating here as time goes on

 

[JohnL]

, it looks like in my case that the cyano thrives in my tank when there is excess nutrients

That's always been my experience.

 

[JohnL]

I will periodically keep updating here as time goes on

Thank you for the information

 

[Radicalrob1982]

Hi folks,

Today, didn’t bother testing no3 or po4 as they are likely zero. However, it seems the cyano is slowly going away.

Been dosing that seachem seed, 1 capful for 22 gallons every morning when the lights are off, if it matters or not.

I believe it’s just assisting with nutrient reduction, but my tank really looking nice for a change.

Something tells me this isn’t the answer but it sure dials back the cyano.

The only thing that’s got me stumped is wouldn’t the bacteria need to be alive to work this way? Not sure how that stuff could stay live in the bottle for so long. Especially once first opened.

Also, and kinda going back to my original post. I have no idea how my tank will ever be able to have enough nutrients to grow regular non nuisance algae without feeding the cyano lol. However, my rocks were able to grow that light skin of green algae on them, which also prevent the cyano from sticking to them.

At the moment, the cyano is only in small spots at the base my rocks where the flow isn’t the greatest. My rocks and most of sand band are looking clean

 

[griss]

Macroalgae may be a long term solution. If you can get some macros established in the DT or a refugium, they will compete with the Cyano for nutrients.

Another thing to consider is cryptic sponges in an unlit refugium. Here’s an older thread about cryptic sponges. @Timfish and @Subsea have a lot of knowledge in this subject matter.

 

[Radicalrob1982]

I also wanted to add that the bacteria bloom is gone even though I’ve been adding the seachem seed everyday. However, noticed some froth build up in one of the corners of my tank at the water surface. Not quite sure why that would happen.

 

[Radicalrob1982]

Macroalgae may be a long term solution. If you can get some macros established in the DT or a refugium, they will compete with the Cyano for nutrients.

Another thing to consider is cryptic sponges in an unlit refugium. Here’s an older thread about cryptic sponges. @Timfish and @Subsea have a lot of knowledge in this subject matter.

Thanks,

I would like to find a way to restore the tank to the way most tanks used to be back in the day. My first tank, had good respectable nutrient levels and didn’t even half to feed my softies or corals in general. They just grew on their own. And didn’t even know what cyano was or worried about it. But that tank was started with a full 20 pounds of real live rock from the ocean (like 12 years ago).

I am sure there is a way but without recording everything at every instance, it’s kind of hard to keep track lol.

I’m gonna try to spend some time looking up some macro that won’t take over the tank. I don’t have a sump. Just a 55 tidal hob filter and 2 power heads. I also don’t have the option for a sump at the moment

 

[griss]

Macro Algae: Your Source For Quality Marine Plants and Macroalgae | Gulf Coast Ecosystems has a great reputation in the hobby.

 

[Radicalrob1982]

Been doing a lot of thinking over the last couple days and have my own theory.

I don’t think it matters what your nutrients are when it comes to cyano. I think what’s happening is that the cyano has staked its claim in the ecosystem and either raising or lowering nutrients isn’t the solution. I think what needs to happen is the cyano itself has to be removed. I attribute a large part my ongoing success initially by physical removal. Bought one of those tea strainer things on Amazon’s and literally scoop/sifted the crud out by hand. This helped immensely.

I don’t believe starving out is the best solution. Because it’s literally one of the most versatile and persistent bacteria’s to exist on earth.

Based on my own personal research, this bacteria is a lot like coral but has the advantage of creating its own food form atmospheric nitrogen and light lol.

Since my cyano is 100% localized at the sand bed, I’m gonna remove the sand through water changes. But instead of getting rid of the water, I’m gonna try replacing it through a filter sock.

Once all the sand is gone, I’m gonna buy 5 pound bags of new substrate and slowly reintroduce it about a months time or more after. Want to give the tank time to settle and see if the cyano then either disappears or maybe it will fix to the rock work once the sand is gone?

I figure it’s worth a shot.

 

[griss]

How deep is your sand bed? I ask because, disturbing a fairly deep sand bed could release hydrogen sulfide which could impact your livestock.