Cycling tank--ICH--questions

[EvilE]

Hi I am new to saltwater fishkeeping, and I recently setup a 30 gallon tank with the help of my friend that is very fish knowledgeable. It has been up about 2 weeks now, and I have been using a few damsels to cycle the tank---salinity and everything is fine. Last night I noticed that one of my domino damsels has white spots all over him--I believe it to be ICH. I have read the "cures" and treatments for marine ICH, and my question is this: should I just break down the whole setup, and clean it well, and wait a week or so, and re-set it up? It seems to me the treatments for ICH are not 100%, and since the tank isn't even cycled yet, maybe the easiest way would be to just do it all over from the start. I would hate to lose the damsels, but wouldn't that be the best way of going about it? How long does ICH live out of the water? Because if I break the whole tank down, and clean it, should I let it all air dry and for how long? I don't want to reintroduce the ICH into it again after I set it back up. Also, I will cycle the tank differently this time around, using Biospira live bacteria from the LFS, and get it going faster, and use live rock this time also. Thoughts????

 

[SnailBert]

your fish are extremely stressed out and their immune system cannot fight off the parasitic infection. your water is causing them to get sick.

the cure is to ensure the water is not allowing them to get sick. there is absolutely no reason to break the tank down as it will not get rid of ich. it's a naturally occuring parasite that all healthy fish are exposed to and can fight off---- if their bodies allow it. it's a myth that letting a tank lie fallow helps rid you tank of ich. the best way to ensure the fish get over the parasite and can fight it off is to maintain better water (feed less durring cycling, every other day is FINE), keep the stress low (damsels are nasty fish to eachother, cycling with them isn't a great idea, many lfs arent up to speed with this), and feed them fresh varied foods (frozen mysis, plankton, etc vitamin enriched. no brine shrimp please).

its really easy to get the fish back on track. it's all up to you to maintain the water and keep the fish stress free.

 

[SnailBert]

i didnt notice you said you dont have live rock. please do so asap. this will cycle your tank faster.

 

[EvilE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9453552#post9453552 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SnailBert
i didnt notice you said you dont have live rock. please do so asap. this will cycle your tank faster.

I will this week--wednesday or thursday!! I promise!!!

 

[EvilE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9453544#post9453544 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SnailBert
your fish are extremely stressed out and their immune system cannot fight off the parasitic infection. your water is causing them to get sick.

the cure is to ensure the water is not allowing them to get sick. there is absolutely no reason to break the tank down as it will not get rid of ich. it's a naturally occuring parasite that all healthy fish are exposed to and can fight off---- if their bodies allow it. it's a myth that letting a tank lie fallow helps rid you tank of ich. the best way to ensure the fish get over the parasite and can fight it off is to maintain better water (feed less durring cycling, every other day is FINE), keep the stress low (damsels are nasty fish to eachother, cycling with them isn't a great idea, many lfs arent up to speed with this), and feed them fresh varied foods (frozen mysis, plankton, etc vitamin enriched. no brine shrimp please).

its really easy to get the fish back on track. it's all up to you to maintain the water and keep the fish stress free.

should I be doing weekly water changes during the cycle, or more frequent???

 

[TerryB]

I disagree with using live rock in a quarantine tank. A qtank should not contain rock, coral, sand or gravel. Those things will complicate medicating. A simple Qtank can be a Rubbermaid container, heater, some PVC pipe for hiding and a sponge filter driven by an airpump. You can seed the sponge with bacteria by keeping it in the sump of an established salt tank a couple of weeks. Tanks should be cycled without fish. Simply add a small amount of food and the bacteria that cycle the tank. IMO, it is your responsibility to treat the damsel. If you don't respect life what are you doing in the hobby anyway? The best treatment for ich is hyposalinity, but you have to use it correctly.

Terry B

 

[victor90]

If there are no hosts(fish) in your tank the ich will die within 60 days. to speed up ichs life cycle you can turn the heat up on the tank. I had lots of problems with ich when i first started. personally sometimes i would catch the fish out and put them in a tank with no live rock and would use copper i t usaully does wonders in about one week. if you want to try hypo i would buy a refractometer and test the water everyday.
good luck

 

[EvilE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9454099#post9454099 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TerryB
I disagree with using live rock in a quarantine tank. A qtank should not contain rock, coral, sand or gravel. Those things will complicate medicating. A simple Qtank can be a Rubbermaid container, heater, some PVC pipe for hiding and a sponge filter driven by an airpump. You can seed the sponge with bacteria by keeping it in the sump of an established salt tank a couple of weeks. Tanks should be cycled without fish. Simply add a small amount of food and the bacteria that cycle the tank. IMO, it is your responsibility to treat the damsel. If you don't respect life what are you doing in the hobby anyway? The best treatment for ich is hyposalinity, but you have to use it correctly.

Terry B

first off Mr. Judgemental, I never said anything about live rock in a QT tank, secondly I realize now that using live fish is not the ideal way to cycle a tank, thirdly, I NEVER said anything about not respecting life!! Damn, you are really something. I am merely trying to do the right thing here, and by asking questions, I get flamed by a person like you!! I realize I have made mistakes, I am trying to correct them by listening to others here that know more about it then me, not by getting flamed by someone like you.

 

[EvilE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9454296#post9454296 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by victor90
If there are no hosts(fish) in your tank the ich will die within 60 days. to speed up ichs life cycle you can turn the heat up on the tank. I had lots of problems with ich when i first started. personally sometimes i would catch the fish out and put them in a tank with no live rock and would use copper i t usaully does wonders in about one week. if you want to try hypo i would buy a refractometer and test the water everyday.
good luck

Thanks for the info man! It takes 60 days huh? Damn, I heard that with no hosts, Ich die off rather quickly.....like 2 weeks.

 

[TerryB]

EvilE,

From the following statement it liooks to me that you where willing to sacrifice the damsels rather than treat them.

"It seems to me the treatments for ICH are not 100%, and since the tank isn't even cycled yet, maybe the easiest way would be to just do it all over from the start. I would hate to lose the damsels, but wouldn't that be the best way of going about it?"

I read it again and it still sounds the same to me. If that wasn't your intentions then maybe being a little more careful about how you state things would be a good thing.

Terry B

 

[EvilE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9461427#post9461427 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TerryB
EvilE,

From the following statement it liooks to me that you where willing to sacrifice the damsels rather than treat them.

"It seems to me the treatments for ICH are not 100%, and since the tank isn't even cycled yet, maybe the easiest way would be to just do it all over from the start. I would hate to lose the damsels, but wouldn't that be the best way of going about it?"

I read it again and it still sounds the same to me. If that wasn't your intentions then maybe being a little more careful about how you state things would be a good thing.

Terry B

it does sound that way, I 'll admit, I should have worded it differently. I wouldn't just kill off fish (or any other animal), unless they were suffering, or something of the like. I have been working in the veterinary field for 15 years, if that tells ya anything. Besides that, my wife would never let me do such a thing!!! She's a save the world-type person!!:lol: I have friends that work in fish stores, and have their own marine tanks, and have the space for my damsels if need be, that's what I meant about losing them.

 

[EvilE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9453544#post9453544 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SnailBert
your fish are extremely stressed out and their immune system cannot fight off the parasitic infection. your water is causing them to get sick.

the cure is to ensure the water is not allowing them to get sick. there is absolutely no reason to break the tank down as it will not get rid of ich. it's a naturally occuring parasite that all healthy fish are exposed to and can fight off---- if their bodies allow it. it's a myth that letting a tank lie fallow helps rid you tank of ich. the best way to ensure the fish get over the parasite and can fight it off is to maintain better water (feed less durring cycling, every other day is FINE), keep the stress low (damsels are nasty fish to eachother, cycling with them isn't a great idea, many lfs arent up to speed with this), and feed them fresh varied foods (frozen mysis, plankton, etc vitamin enriched. no brine shrimp please).

its really easy to get the fish back on track. it's all up to you to maintain the water and keep the fish stress free.

They are swimming around, acting fine, and eating well. I have been feeding them a combo of good quality flake, and frozen vitamin encapsulated bloodworms. They eat all of both. My friend told me to turn up the temp on my tank to 82 degrees for a week--good or bad advice??

 

[TerryB]

EvilE,

Glad we clarified that! I feel much better about helping you now. Please don't turn up the temp. You will cause the fish thermal stress and it only speeds the ich cylce up. There is a lot of confusing mis-information on the Internet about ich. Fish usually continue to eat well for some time while infected. I recommend hyposalinity in a Qtank for all exposed fish. Use a refractometer at 14ppt (not Specific Gravity) and check the pH daily in treatment.

Terry B