Dosing with ms wages pickling lime juice

[watson_barrett]

I dose about 1 tablespoon per day mixed with about 1 gallon of water and about 50ml of vinegar (this is a complete guess, i don't measure the vinegar anymore, could be way more, i'll try getting a more accurage # for this next time i mix, 2 days from now). Been using this for about a year now. Sometimes i get lazy and miss a day (or two, or if i'm really really really lazy three)

Just wondering what everyone else dose amount are who uses this as well...

 

[HighlandReefer]

The dose that is generaly recommended is about 15 ml vinegar/ 1 tsp kalk (pickling lime maybe a little more) / 1 gallon rodi.

If your dosing is not keeping up with your alk. & calcium levels, than you can increase the dosing up to 2 tsps. or even 3 tsps.

Right now I am dosing 75 ml. vinegar / 3 tsps kalk/ 1 gallon of rodi. I find that to get the most out of your vinegar, you can achieve this by using 25 ml. vinegar / 1 tsp kalk / 1 gallon rodi. When I cut back from the 25 ml. vinegar / tsp. then the amount of alk and calcium is reduced.

One thing when dosing vinegar, there have been problems noted with bacterial mats developing, so you want to watch for that. I have never experienced any bacterial mats in over 8 months of dosing vinegar at the above rate. I do have a deep sand bed, so that may play a factor in it.

 

[watson_barrett]

Is that teaspoon or tablespoon and is that slow dripped per day???

 

[HighlandReefer]

That would be teaspoon. You can drip it or you can add it to a top-off reservoir as I do.

 

[watson_barrett]

What is a bactiral mat?

Also, would there be any negative effects of dosing too much kalk/pickling lime powder? What about vinegar?

I have had a few outbreaks of red slime but i think that was due to having too low flow in the DT, i think i have solved that issue.

Also when mixing vinegar w/ the kalk/pickling lime, does it loose it effect or have a different effect than if you were to just add vinegar straight to the tank as discussed by some other members in the "vodka/sugar/vinegar" dosing talks. (in other words does mixing it make it loose its normal chemical effect on the tank?)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Why are you using the vinegar? I generally recommend avoiding it unless you know that you need it relative to limewater alone, or are using it for reasons totally unrelated to limewater.

The vinegar has the same effect to dive bacteria in the tank as when dosed directly. But folks with limewater often dose much larger amounts than those dosing for bacteria purposes.

I discuss limewater with and without vinegar here:

What Your Grandmother Never Told You About Lime
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.htm

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What is a bactiral mat?

A big ugly glob of bacteria growing on something in the tank. Most often white or clearish.

 

[watson_barrett]

no real reason as to why dosing w/ vinegar other than the video i saw about dosing w/ pickling lime to keep Ca levels up put some in when he was mixing it.

Maybe you can help me though, i've had nitrates since i started this hobby back 2 years ago, never had readings below 10 or so.

My Ca is usually between 400-500.

The vinegar should help reduce my Nitrates right???

Basically what can i do to get them down.

I will print my readings from my last parameter measurements when i get home late tonight, hopefully you can point me in the right direction.

 

[HighlandReefer]

Vinegar can help to keep your nitrates & phosphates down. Usually you should try the recommended means to lower them first, before you get into dosing vinegar. As I stated above, there have been some draw backs noted when dosing vinegar and all the principles are not understood. So you should call it experimental. This is what Randy was referring to.

Things to try first and you may have already tried some:
1) use rodi water
2) install a refugium with a deep sand bed.
3) Add lights to the refugium and macroalgae (Chaeto).
4) Dose iron for the macroalgae.
5) Proper skimming techniques (wet skimming).
6) Proper feeding habits for your fish.
7) Proper number of fish in your system.
8) I recommend using a GAC/GFO reactor.
9) Proper water changing of your tank.

If you dose vinegar I strongly recommend that you have a deep sand bed for driving bacteria. If all the above fail to keep your nitrates & phosphates under control, then I would recommend dosing vinegar. I would start out with the 15 ml. vinegar / 1 tsp. kalk / 1 gallon rodi and then work your way up. Keep an eye out for bacterial mats & any other negative affects on your system.

 

[watson_barrett]

Well i use RODI
Have a sump w/ chaeto and 3' sand bed...
Try to do 15% water changes bi-weekly.

Here were my last reading before a water changes, obviously some problems....

Salinity 1.025
PH 8.3
Temp 79
Calcium 420
Kh 214
Po 160, yikes.
Nitrate 160!!!

Since then i have added a more powerful powerhead and started stiring up small areas of the same bed.

I'm going to take more readings today before i do my waterchange.

 

[HighlandReefer]

If you said you are stirring up your sand bed, then I would not recommend doing that. I would lightly clean the surface of the sand bed only. If you are doing this, then that may be causing a lot of your problems.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I would separate the limewater and vinegar so you can at least have a clear impression of what you are dosing and what each is for. Tieing the two together only confounds things.

 

[watson_barrett]

I thought you were suppose to release the bubbles that are trappen in the sandbed???

 

[HighlandReefer]

I am assuming the you are using a true sand and not crushed coral. With a 3" sand bed (finer sands), you are really right in the transition zone of a shallow bed and a deep sand bed. If this bed contains anaerobic bacteria, then you would not want to stir it up. If you are stirring this bed every week, then it will not go anaerobic and it will become a sink for your left over fish food and fish excrement. Nitrates will build up between stirrings in this bed and every time you stir it up you will release them into your water column, which results in these extremely high levels you have. I personally like the deep sand beds with 6" of sand, which you would not want to stir at all.

I would add at least one or two more inches of sand and not stir it up.

 

[watson_barrett]

I guess stiring is a bad desription...

I mearly run a stick though the areas around the glass...(and about 4-5' from glass),

I think the high nitrates is either from what used to be poor water circulation in certain areas of my tank and I'm sure i feed too much and have too many fish...

 

[watson_barrett]

I'm going to post some pics after i eat, i think that will help.

 

[HighlandReefer]

If you did not stir your sand bed for a longer period, it is deep enough to go anaerobic, like I said. Then you started stirring, which caused problems, like I said.

Right now, with the levels of nitrates & phosphates in your system, I think it would be a good idea to do some 20%-30% water changes to get those levels down to about half of what they are now. I would add some more sand, like I said above and not stir the sand bed. If you want to dose vinegar, it will help.

 

[watson_barrett]

Took reading with new test kit which is easier to use:

Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10-20
Phosphate .5
Calcium 340
PH 8.3

So things seem to be back in check although i would obviously like to get Nitrate and phosphate down a little more...

 

[HighlandReefer]

At the levels your at now, dosing vinegar like I stated above should improve those figures. Looks much better, Not really that bad. If you can get the phosphates below 0.03 that would be great and get the nitrates down to at least 0.2.

 

[watson_barrett]

That is definately the goal but have never seen number any lower than i'm reading right now, although this is the first 2 weeks i've increased my flow so hopefully then are coming down slowely.

Also, i'm thinking about adding more LS from my QT tank to my DT, QT tank has been up for over 2 years, do i need to rinse the LS before i add it to the DT or how would that work???