Dying Hammer Coral... help!

[Trex420]

Hey all.
I have a 29 gal reef. I had recently setup a refugium containing cheato and caulerpa. My nitrates dropped to zero immediately. The nitrate test was the only test that consistently came up with a result other than desired and that was always 10 ppm. I tested the tank weekly (as usual) for several weeks after the addition of the fuge. I then slacked on a bimonthly water change for a week because the tests (ammonia, PH, Nitrate and Nitrite and salinity) had all shown the best results I had ever gotten as there was always that 10 ppm Nitrates now they were still 0 ppm. I check the water quality again a week after the skipped water change and my nitrates were 40 ppm and my nitrites were 0.25 ppm. I was bummed. Strangely enough everything in the tank looked fine. I did a water change of 3 gals then added Kent buffer as described below. I waited almost a day. Everything in the tank still looked fine. I tested levels again and nitrates were 20 ppm, my nitrites were still 0.25 ppm but my PH had crashed to at most 7.4. I did another 3 gal water change, everything in the tank still looked fine after. I knew the PH would crash again so I added the same amount of buffer in a container with several cups of water from the display tank then slowly poured the buffer water into the tank over a 10 minute period into a high flow area of the DT, all as per usual. I literally watched my prize center piece Hammer that I had gotten from Tyler (hawkfish121) die in front of my eyes! All 9 heads shrunk up, unlike anything Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve seen them do before, then started to emit a brown slime. The center of the heads, except one or two, look as though there is nothing but skeleton left surrounded by a ring of dying tissue. My current levels are good. Nitrates are at 10 ppm and the PH lowered to around 8.1 now. Anyone have any ideas. I have Bubble Coral, Frogspawn and Torch LPS Corals in there with a bunch of softies. They all look fine still with the exception of one Ricordea that looked a little bad before all this started and it is getting better. The Ricordea is what got me to test the tank again in the first place.
Any help or ideas are appreciated as Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m really bummed about my centerpiece Hammer. ;( Is there something I can do to help the Hammer or is it a wait and see thing? I plan on leaving the tank alone for a couple of days to see if things solve themselves. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ll keep monitoring the various levels daily and just doing top offs. Once again I appreciate any of your ideas or thoughts!

 

[murfman]

Why is your Ph crashing? If you are doing a water change with new salt, your ph should be what your main tank is at. I would find the cause of the ph shift. As for the hammer, wait and see. I thought I lost a bubble coral twice and it will surprize me and re grow, your hammer may do the same. Don't worry too much about your nitrates, in time they will come down

 

[hawkfish21]

Sent PM.

 

[hawkfish21]

Your mailbox is full.

 

[Trex420]

I think the PH crashes because I'm changing a rather large amount of water relative to the total volume in the system. I must have 40-50# of LR in a 29 Gal tank. The 10 Gal Fuge with a 3" DSB and some LR leaves around 6 gals of water in the fuge is my guess. So I would guess there is 25 Gal in the entire system. A 3 Gal water change is more than usual and more than I wanted to do but I was worried about the 40 ppm Nitrates.

 

[stugray]

You havent mentioned ammonia.

I have heard that some animals can handle high levels of ammonia, but only at certain Ph. If the Ammonia levels were unusually high, and you abruptly shifted the Ph, that may have pushed the animal into the Bad Ph/Amm region.

Just a wild shot.

Stu

 

[Trex420]

The ammonia the entire time has been 0 ppm.

 

[Trex420]

Mail boxed partially emptied.

 

[murfman]

from the volumn you are listing, 3 gallons is just over 10%. should not impact your ph like that.

 

[roguemonk]

FWIW:

Freshly mixed salt water (with a good quality salt mix) will normally be at a good pH and alkalinity level, so I don't really think the water changes would have caused the pH crash (or depleted the buffer). The formation of nitrates from the nitrogen and hydrogen in ammonia does (if my layperson's understanding of the chemistry is accurate) deplete alkalinity and decrease pH, and that could be behind the crashing pH as your buffer is exhausted.

NH4 + 3 OH --> NO3 + 7 H (I'm sure it's not that simple, involving a lot of complex reactions along the way and some excess electrons, I think, but the proportions of elements are right)

Those 7 H ions will combine with a lot of hydroxide to move the pH back toward a balance of 7.

So my guess is the nitrate cycle is accelerating faster than the algae can fix the nitrates and that is eating up all your buffer and driving down pH.

If you can isolate the cause of the increased nitrate production (something in the tank is dying or not being consumed as it used to be) and put a stop to it you should be okay (if it's a die-off I suppose it will be over when everything that's dying is finally dead, if that's any encouragement).

Is there anything missing in the tank that might have died in the last couple of weeks?

I hope this makes sense and that I'm not missing something in my understanding of the chemistry!

Brad

 

["Umm fish?"]

You never mentioned your Alk level. Have you been dosing calcium and not adding buffer (I mean before the buffer you added over the ten minute course you mentioned above)?

 

[roguemonk]

It's also worth noting that the large proportion of LR in your system is doubtless a nitrate factory, so whenever you have a cycling event you probably won't see any ammonia because it will be cycled so quickly to nitrate that this pattern may occur again. It may be, ironically, that you have more biological filtration than the volume of water can sustain comfortably when there's some kind of cycling going on.

Brad

 

[Trex420]

"If you can isolate the cause of the increased nitrate production (something in the tank is dying or not being consumed as it used to be) and put a stop to it you should be okay (if it's a die-off I suppose it will be over when everything that's dying is finally dead, if that's any encouragement).

Is there anything missing in the tank that might have died in the last couple of weeks?"

I have a bunch of snails. I haven't noticed any fresh loses but it could have happened. More likely I had within the past two weeks gotten a Pixie Spotted Hawkfish, very beautiful and reef safe, the F'er chowed one of two Peppermint shrimp within a day. I started feeding the tank copious amount of frozen Mysid shrimp twice daily as opposed to once or twice a week just to satisfy the Hawkfish. This is in hopes that heââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ll leave my Fire Shrimp and Pistol Shrimp alone, I moved the other Peppermint to the fuge. This may account for the spike in waste.

"Have you been dosing calcium and not adding buffer?"

I haven't been adding any supplements other than buffer. Call me stupid I guess. I just hate adding chemicals to tanks. I am in the works of setting up a Kalk drip system; I just need to find the 1/8" OD tubing. Anyone?

"It's also worth noting that the large proportion of LR in your system is doubtless a nitrate factory, so whenever you have a cycling event you probably won't see any ammonia because it will be cycled so quickly to nitrate that this pattern may occur again. It may be, ironically, that you have more biological filtration than the volume of water can sustain comfortably when there's some kind of cycling going on."

I am starting to think the same. I have a 75 G that I'm setting up. I'll transfer some of the rock to there after it is established.

One last note. Would removing my HOB protein skimmer, after setting up the fuge, be the cause of high nitrates? I had removed it weeks before this problem occurred and monitored levels carefully; the only problem one nitrates went finally to 0 ppm from the usual 10 ppm after the PS removal. I had to use the PS on the 75 G for cycling as I have a kick *** ASM G-2 in sump PS but I just haven't gotten real lights or a return pump. I was thinking a Mag 12 or 18 with a ball valve on the output for a return pump.

 

[roguemonk]

Adding buffer without calcium would tend to send the system into unpredictable swings, and the low calcium will be hard on all the corals eventually. Once you're adding them in balance you might see a moderation of the swings you're having now.

A protein skimmer won't take out any NO3 but I suppose it might help reduce the amount of organics available as a source of NH4. Still I think that's a minor effect compared to the extra food that's going uneaten in the tank.

Brad

 

[Trex420]

Amazingly enough the Hammer seems to have survived but it is still a slow recovery. All the heads still haven't opened. Thanks all for your help!

Tom