Emperor Angel's Color

[Holyreefer]

My Emperor Angels color seems to start to be leaving him.
It looks like its white and blochy all over his body.

Does anyone know what this is and how i can cure it?

He eats nori like a pig! And seems to nibble on other food i throw in the tank.

Any suggestions or comments would be greatly appreciated

I see now i just found out a couple of possiblities...

#1-Activated Carbon:

It has been suggested that activated carbon might play a role in MHLLE (Frakes, 1988; Hemdal, 2003; Hemdal, pers. comm. and Michael, 2003), although the exact mechanism that these various authors suggest differs. Some have theorized that the activated carbon in the aquarium's filtration system could remove necessary trace elements that the fish require. Others hypothesize that activated carbon could leach something into the water that negatively affects the fish. And still others speculate that carbon dust may act as an irritant to the fish.

As additional "anecdotal support" for this theory, Scott Michael noted that a local fish store he visited that used activated carbon was experiencing MHLLE in almost every fish under its care. And I must say, I too have witnessed similar experiences at retail locations that use a lot of activated carbon and then coincidentally experience massive outbreaks of MHLLE. But this is anecdote, not proof. In these situations there was simply no evidence of what might have happed in the absence of activated carbon, all other things remaining equal. It could just as easily be a dietary concern. Or, perhaps the store was using activated carbon to make up for a lack of water changes or other poor husbandry issues. There are simply too many factors involved to point to a definitive cause.

Additionally, activated carbon is used so frequently in the ornamental fish industry and hobby that it is no surprise some fish exposed to activated carbon develop MHLLE. Also, since large numbers of fish routinely housed in systems utilizing activated carbon don't develop MHLLE, and consequently some fish develop MHLLE while not exposed to activated carbon, additional factors must be playing a role in those cases in which fish do exhibit
symptoms of MHLLE.

Got that from reedkeeping.com
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/sp/index.php

Its already bad enough these fish are stupid sensitve.

 

[MrTuskfish]

A pic would really help. Are you sure this isn't just part of his normal color changing?

 

[Gill_bucket]

Sounds like the normal color changing to me; they can get kind of ugly in the in-between stage. I have never owned one just drooled over a lot of pics.

 

[geaux xman]

if its an emp juvie, mine is becoming that way. from what i've seen, thats how they start changing to adult.

DD is selling one that is changing and it is starting to get white blotches.

 

[James404]

From what I have noticed on mine if it is stressed it will get some white coloration on it's body. It could also be part of the changing progress as said above.

 

[Holyreefer]

but hes already at adult color ill try to post a pic tonight so you guys can see.

 

[Holyreefer]

heres what hes looking like

 

[jhentr]

Wow, never seen this before. Did he eat anything besides nori before? Besides this blotchiness, is he acting normal?

 

[dviper150]

That happened to the first emperor I had. It went through the same blotches. Unfortunately, it died after being like that for a bit. I didn't have a UV on my tank and after I added one, it never happened again. It could be something in your water that is irritating it. Could be parasites, bad water parameters, or something else that is causing the stress.

 

[Holyreefer]

Wow, never seen this before. Did he eat anything besides nori before? Besides this blotchiness, is he acting normal?

Yes hes eating prepared foods and Nori like crazy. And he is acting normal

Thats why i said in the start of this im starting to believe its the Carbon that im using.

I noticed it started happening right after i switched out the old Carbon to replace the new stuff. Crazy because i read the above article right after i switched it out. i removed the active carbon last night and i hope this will help with his current condition. id HATE to lose this fish!

 

[geaux xman]

i seriously doubt carbon will cause anything that severe. if it did, we would see fish with skin conditions like that much more often.

 

[Allmost]

Feed it vitamines, like Zoa.

also NEw life spectrum pellets which have Vit. D.

about carbon, there are 2 possibilities.
1. your tank had alot of organics,they bonded to ions which may have been used by the fish. Carbon introduction removed such organics, hence the ions and vitamines from water with it,. which means it needs to be replenished [Vita chem is good.]

2. you didnt rinse it, and small particles got stuck int he fishes Gills. [what that article is about, which I do not think its the case here.

the fish is having nutrition problems, eating wise and from what he can take up from water. Id do water changes, dose some vitachem or any other trace elements, and soak the nori in different enrichment on each feeding, Zoa, Vita chem, lipotiv, ....

BEST ADDITIVE to help you with this fish is brightwell's Angellix or something like that., its Amoni acids extracted from sponges, Ihave hilled 2 emperors before with this. soak the nori in it for some time, [10 mins for me] and feed.

Skim WET, and do your water changes as addtion of all these vitamines can ruin your water.

HTH,

 

[MrTuskfish]

Just a wild guess. You mentioned that he eats a lot of nori; but has he also been getting plenty of meaty foods. I've read several past posts from people who think these fish are herbivores. they aren't and need plenty of meaty stuff too. Is he eating stuff like mysis, gut-loaded brine, fresh shrimp bits? At first, I thought this was a case of HLLE gone postal; but I don't think so. There has been a bit of research to tie HLLE to activated carbon, but not enough (IMO) to panic. Its hard to come up with anything that hasn't been blamed foe HLLE at one time or another.

 

[Allmost]

Just a wild guess. You mentioned that he eats a lot of nori; but has he also been getting plenty of meaty foods. I've read several past posts from people who think these fish are herbivores. they aren't and need plenty of meaty stuff too. Is he eating stuff like mysis, gut-loaded brine, fresh shrimp bits? At first, I thought this was a case of HLLE gone postal; but I don't think so. There has been a bit of research to tie HLLE to activated carbon, but not enough (IMO) to panic. Its hard to come up with anything that hasn't been blamed foe HLLE at one time or another.

angels are actually sponge eaters.

need that in their diet.

 

[MrTuskfish]

angels are actually sponge eaters.

need that in their diet.

Emperors are true omnivores They do eat some sponge, but that isn't their entire diet--at least according to anything I've ever read. I guess if they ate nothing but sponge, they'd be carnivores---sounds weird. Most large angels do better when acquired as juvis; one big reason is that they can learn to eat what the hobbyist feeds them and haven't already developed a rigid feeding routine. Sponge is great for Angels, but plenty of Emperors have been kept for many years without it. The newer Frozen Angel foods that contain sponge are excellent, IMO.
Here's what Bob Fenner has to say on his site, Wetwebmedia;

Feeding/Foods/Nutrition: Types, Frequency, Amount, Wastes

"Similar to members of the genus Holacanthus, emperors and other Pomacanthus are known consumers of a large amount of sponge (phylum Porifera) material, then algae, other animal material and vascular plants in the wild. Will you go broke buying live sponges or specialty frozen foods made of the same? Nah. In captivity they can/usually will adapt/adopt to prepared frozen, fresh and dry foods."

 

[Allmost]

Us humans can adapt to eating only chips as well.

but that will not give us all the nutritions we need to stay healthy and "color up" [kinda funny when u use that term for humans, but u get my point ] and grow ...

so yes, you can make an angel eat frozen and nori and ... but if its nutrition requirements are not met, the pic above will happen !

you are right about the Angel formula frozen food, very good food indeed. as it contains sponges.

I sometimes collect sponges from other tanks I have and feed my angels too.

the angellix enrichment product is supposed to duplicate the amino acids found in sponges, so I have had good results with that as well.

I honestly can not believe an angel being healthy and grow in a tank for long when not fed sponges or enriched in such products. just like you hear many claim their tangs only eat meaty food and are healthy ! wont happen.

 

[James404]

That is what the coloration on them looks like when they are very stressed. I would also judge by the fin tearing that infection or crypt is present as well.

 

[MrTuskfish]

[QUOTE
I honestly can not believe an angel being healthy and grow in a tank for long when not fed sponges or enriched in such products.[/QUOTE]

Makes sense, but sponge products just haven't been on the market that long and plenty of Pomacanthus Angels did very well without the sponge. I don't like to rely on my own experience as any sort of proof; but I never used any sponge products until after Katrina moved me 6 years ago. I kept at least 3 Pomacanthus Angels for about 10 years, still had an Emperor and a Blue Face when they were lost. I know of many hobbyists who had similar experiences. All of these fish began captive life as juvis. I now have another Emperor and a majestic, and Blue Face; all about 5 years old. I do feed come frozen sponge foods, but it is a small part of their diet and they are thriving. Again, If Bob Fenner (Arguably, among the hobby's leading authorities) says its OK....that works for me.