Female Hoeven's Wrasse?

[EthanHawaii]

Hi,

I had my LFS order in a Hoeven's Wrasse, that was supposed to be a male, but now that I have seen it I think it is a female. Do they start out as all females and then some turn into males? I really wanted a male because they are so much brighter coloured.

Sorry for the bad picture.

Thanks!

 

[cichlidsrcool]

I believe they start female and change to male if no males are available in group

 

[eatbreakfast]

That is a female. They are protogynous hermaphrodites, they start as juveniles, become females, then transition into males if social situations allow it.

 

[3dees]

I bought my female two years ago. now a beautiful male.

 

[_E_]

That is a female. They are protogynous hermaphrodites, they start as juveniles, become females, then transition into males if social situations allow it.

Exactly what is said above.

 

[BlueMac92]

If your tank allows it, I'd get another one that's already made the transition and keep both. I have a male & female melanurus in my tank and it's awesome to watch them interact.

The male follows the little female around all day and flashes his fins at her. She just ignores him for the most part though lol.

 

[eatbreakfast]

If your tank allows it, I'd get another one that's already made the transition and keep both. I have a male & female melanurus in my tank and it's awesome to watch them interact.

The male follows the little female around all day and flashes his fins at her. She just ignores him for the most part though lol.

This doesn't always work out so well. If the female begins to transition into a male in the presence of another male, the aggression increases exponentially.

 

[BlueMac92]

This doesn't always work out so well. If the female begins to transition into a male in the presence of another male, the aggression increases exponentially.

Well sure, you need to keep an eye on them. But doesn't that hold true for all Protogynous hermaphrodites? Look at all the Centropyge and Genicanthus pairs seen in members tanks, who are born exclusively female.

It, of course, needs to be done with caution. But if you get the sizing right I don't see why it wouldn't work. Just have your net ready!

 

[eatbreakfast]

Well sure, you need to keep an eye on them. But doesn't that hold true for all Protogynous hermaphrodites? Look at all the Centropyge and Genicanthus pairs seen in members tanks, who are born exclusively female.

It, of course, needs to be done with caution. But if you get the sizing right I don't see why it wouldn't work. Just have your net ready!

Actually, it doesn't apply to all protogynous hermaphrodites. In angels, such as in Centropyge and Genicanthus fish will form bonded pairs, this is not the case with wrasses. While in cases with angels and wrasses gender is based on social hierarchy, with fish that form 'bonded' pairs the heirarchy dynamics are essentially on pause, until the male dies, this is simply not the case with wrasses. Wrasses don't bond, rather once a dominant male shows any weakness, rival males, submales, and dominant females immediately take the opportunity to challenge and usurp the male. In aquaria this often leads to severe aggression, and in many cases, the death of one of the fish. Sure, there are always exceptions, but these are exceptions, not the norm.

 

[BlueMac92]

Female Hoeven's Wrasse?

Actually, it doesn't apply to all protogynous hermaphrodites. In angels, such as in Centropyge and Genicanthus fish will form bonded pairs, this is not the case with wrasses. While in cases with angels and wrasses gender is based on social hierarchy, with fish that form 'bonded' pairs the heirarchy dynamics are essentially on pause, until the male dies, this is simply not the case with wrasses. Wrasses don't bond, rather once a dominant male shows any weakness, rival males, submales, and dominant females immediately take the opportunity to challenge and usurp the male. In aquaria this often leads to severe aggression, and in many cases, the death of one of the fish. Sure, there are always exceptions, but these are exceptions, not the norm.

I.....did not know that. Though I suppose my knowledge on wrasses is....limited at best.

So all the wrasses sold as or in an individual's tank as "bonded pairs" or pairs are essentially "ticking time bombs" (for lack of a better phrase)? Or rather "exceptions" that have a higher probability to ultimately change?

I mean any pair, wether it be wrasse, Angel, trigger etc has the possibility of sex change leading to aggression issues. But it's more likely in wrasses?

 

[eatbreakfast]

I.....did not know that. Though I suppose my knowledge on wrasses is....limited at best.

So all the wrasses sold as or in an individual's tank as "bonded pairs" or pairs are essentially "ticking time bombs" (for lack of a better phrase)? Or rather "exceptions" that have a higher probability to ultimately change?

I mean any pair, wether it be wrasse, Angel, trigger etc has the possibility of sex change leading to aggression issues. But it's more likely in wrasses?

Most female wrasses will transition in captivity, regardless of whether a male present or not. In most of the cases where a male is present the transition leads to a lot more aggression. This often leads to the demise of one of the males. Some exceptions would include very large ranks, or tanks with many other closely related wrasses.

Selling wrasses as pairs is a gimmick. Most consumers believe they will get better colors and displays from their male if a female is present, which they will, but the above mentioned problems will eventually occur and male wrasses will also keep their colors and display to males of other species as well, usually with less aggression.

 

[EthanHawaii]

Thank you all so much!

eatbreakfast are you saying that if I get this female it will turn into a male?
oh and I will not be getting a pair, my tank would not have enough room and I don't think it would be a good idea

Thanks.

 

[eatbreakfast]

Thank you all so much!

eatbreakfast are you saying that if I get this female it will turn into a male?
oh and I will not be getting a pair, my tank would not have enough room and I don't think it would be a good idea

Thanks.

Yes, it will quite likely transition into a male.

 

[EthanHawaii]

Awesome! I bought her 3 days ago and everything is looking good,
she did not wan't to eat mysis for the first day, but after that she started eating like crazy!

Thanks again everyone!

she is still a bit camera shy so it's not the best pictures.

[/URL

 

[Jeff4777]

I have both a male and female together. They seem to get along good. the girl better stay a girl!

 

[EthanHawaii]

Cool! yeah that would not be good if it turned into a male.