Flame wrasse disease help (Pictures included)

[Spar]

I picked up a Flame Wrasse trio the other day (1 male, 2 female). They are eating, but are sluggish (especially the male). Breathing looks ok'ish, but heavier than I would like to see. I tested for Ammonia and have none. They are currently in TTM QT, so I can treat easily.

They all have white spots (could be ich, but I am treating for that), but also have white blotches forming. Any idea from the pictures what this may be? Bacteria infection? Velvet?

Can't see the blotches in the brighter picture so I took one with no flash as well of which highlights the blotches better.

 

[degibson84]

I have had a pair of Scott's for over three months and they both have these spots as of yesterday. Not as many as above but still looks to be the same thing. Mine are fine eating like crazy and acting the same as they have since I got them just after chrisas

 

[Spar]

bump for the Sunday crowd.

i have Maracyn Plus, Furan-2 and PraziPro that I haven't dosed any of yet. Curious if I should at least do one of the bacterial medications as a 'just in case'? Are they harsh on the fish?

 

[Newsmyrna80]

It looks like brook. Treat with formalin or Quick Cure dips. There is a stickie on brook: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2388437

 

[Spar]

Thanks. Does seem like brook per the sticky description. I am confused by all the options in the sticky though. Given I have these guys in a QT (10g) that I can do as many waterchanges on as necessary (even 100% WC's, given I am doing TTM at the same time anyway)... what is the best option for me?

If there is an option that just entails adding meds to the tank itself, rather than pulling the fish out for dips then that would be preferred as I travel for work and want my wife to take the lead (she won't be pulling the fish out without a fight).

Obviously I want to pick a method, or combination of methods, that is best for the fish though.

 

[Newsmyrna80]

How far into TT are you? You could do the dips before transferring to a clean tank. I actually discovered my flame angel had brook on the third transfer. I did Quick Cure dips and moved him into a new container after each dip (every other day).
I don't know of in tank treatments that are as effective as dips and since brook is a fast killer treatment needs to start immediately.

 

[andrewkw]

Another then the spot above the eye, this looks like normal nighttime flame wrasse spots to me. This is what they look like when they are sleeping and cover themselves in a slime coat.

Is this your first flame wrasse? He just looks stressed to me, but I'm no expert on brook. Every flame wrasse I have owned has looked similar to this though.

 

[Spar]

I had a trio of flame wrasses a couple years back. the main difference was how active they were. the prior trio was very bold and active, while these new ones are more lethargic... then again I have only had them for 3 days now, and most fish are shy during this initial time.

They still produce a thick slime coat when sleeping. I will take a look at them and maybe grab a new photo in a couple hours to show daytime color.

If I do Quick Cure dips btw TT's, is this stressful for the fish? I have no problem doing TT's every 2 days for these guys. Think that will do the trick (if it is brook) without dosing the tank with something (e.g. just dips and putting into a clean new water tank)?

 

[Spar]

Also, I can't find a consistent answer in searches on how to do a Quick Cure dip/bath... I found some Quick Cure in my fish closet (forgot I bought it a couple months ago), so am ready, just need guidance. What multiplier strength should the solution be?

The bottle says 1 drop per gallon for an in-tank dosage. Think 5x that? 45 minutes dip ok (I will watch them)? Also, think 1-2 gallons of water is ok (HD bucket)?

 

[Spar]

Update: now that it is mid-day I went to look at them. I don't see any of the blotches on them right now, just the white spots (prob either ich or lymph).

I am thinking they are just being shy? When I put food in they don't want to touch it while I am watching them, but the second I walk out of the room and peek around the corner they are all three out looking vibrant and eating like pigs. They each have their own PVC hiding spot that they stay in pretty much 24 hours a day.

Does this make it sound less like brook and more like shyness? I really don't want to over react and dip when they don't need it. Unless dipping (with quick cure, not a f/w dip) just isn't a risk.

 

[Newsmyrna80]

Are they breathing hard, scratching, lethargic? Read this, it may help you diagnose: http://www.chucksaddiction.com/brookynella.html
IME a wrasse only expels excess mucus after sleeping. I have never seen spots on a healthy wrasse but I've not owned a flasher wrasse. Perhaps someone with flasher wrasse experience will chime in.

 

[Spar]

Are they breathing hard, scratching, lethargic? Read this, it may help you diagnose: http://www.chucksaddiction.com/brookynella.html
IME a wrasse only expels excess mucus after sleeping. I have never seen spots on a healthy wrasse but I've not owned a flasher wrasse. Perhaps someone with flasher wrasse experience will chime in.

Breathing - not hard anymore, in fact low enough that i was almost concerned they weren't breathing earlier (but they are)

Scratching - none at all

Lethargic - only to the extent that they just stay in their PVC pipes all day, or right outside of it laying against the side at the bottom; but once food is in there the flicker their fins vibrantly and get excited.

Re: Link - great info in there. they definitely don't look like the pictures they have posted.

INFECTION INDICATORS - The usual first indication would show itself as rapid breathing and loss of coloration in the head area of the fish, followed by obvious excessive mucous sloughing off of the fish, Excessive mucous may not be confined to the head area, it may show up anywhere upon the fish. Scraping itself against other objects in the tank may also be seen as the fish trys to dislodge the parasite, you may also notice the fish has lost its appetite and remains listless or hides constantly. Cloudy eyes may also become apparent.

So they cover:
(1) rapid breathing - i will keep an eye out, but as mentioned above not really a concern anymore
(2) loss of coloration in the head - problem here is that those wrasses are brighter at the tail and transitions into a lighter color at the head, so hard to tell if it is just that or not
(3) mucous - only when they are setting up their mucous sleeping bag, not during the day
(4) scraping itself - none
(5) loss of appetite - eating like pigs
(6) remains listless and hides - could just be that they are being shy right now (since new)

 

[Spar]

Must have been stress related. Yesterday was the first day (Day 7 since purchase) of seeing them out swimming freely in the tank. And they even ate right in front of me. Spots are gone now and coloration is looking much better and more consistent.

So looks like crisis diverted (knock on wood).