fowlr water changes and biopellets

[rwb500]

what do y'all do for water changes in your low-nitrate fowlr systems? most people just do water changes to keep nitrates at bay (as far as i know), but if youre dosing carbon you could easily keep nitrates very low indefinitely. throw some chaeto in to keep the phosphate in check, and it seems that no3 and po4 would be constantly at acceptable levels. so how do you know when to change water? assuming you know how to dose 2 part to keep your basic levels in check.

remember this is for fowlr, nothing but rocks and fish.

 

[E.intheC]

Im also wondering if people are using bio pellets in their FOWLR systems..

 

[NiTr0x911]

I have a 180 Fowlr with a 6" Blue Face Angel,5-6"Aussie Tusk,Six Line,Flame Angel,Flame Hawk and a 5-6" Fox Face. Tank is Fed probably a little to heavy.A 60 Gallon water change once a month keeps everyone happy.I don't use carbon.

 

[rwb500]

I'm not looking for general water change guidelines or wondering if people are using biopellets or not. I'm wondering how frequently water changes need to be done when nitrate, phosphate, mag, ca, and alk are maintained through carbon, mg, and 2-part dosing in a large fowlr system.

 

[rwb500]

And by carbon dosing I mean biopellets, vodka, sugar, vinegar, etc...

Not activated carbon. Perhaps this question is better for the advanced topics forum?

 

[E.intheC]

. ...suggesting people are dumb is a good way to get help.. :thumbsup:

 

[rwb500]

I don't know why you think I called anyone dumb. But you also misinterpreted my first post, so no surprise there. I think I will have better luck in the advanced topics forum.

edit-oh maybe you thought my comment about the advanced topics forum was a mean-spirited remark? no that was not meant to imply anything. its just that most discussion of biopellets is over there.

 

[jjk_reef00]

For what it is worth I've used biopellets and vodka in the past. I didn't think the pellets were as good as vodka but I didn't reduce the amount of water changes. Generally FOWLR are going to have higher nitrates because the fish are very large and produce much more waste than small fish. I use to measure my nitrate levels but I gave up on that a long time ago. As long as my fish look good and act normal I continue with my 50 gallon water change every other week. I have a little over 400 total gallons. I still use vodka today.

 

[E.intheC]

I don't know why you think I called anyone dumb. But you also misinterpreted my first post, so no surprise there. I think I will have better luck in the advanced topics forum.

edit-oh maybe you thought my comment about the advanced topics forum was a mean-spirited remark? no that was not meant to imply anything. its just that most discussion of biopellets is over there.

Honestly, you come off condescending when you pick apart other members answers line by line, and then say that you should just stop asking here in the FOWLR section, and move to the Advanced Topics Forum. Then, you move on to say "...so no surprise there" about misinterpreting posts..

I don't see how it can be interpreted any other way. Pretty straight forward to me. Even if you're not getting a good answer to your question (which I actually agree with you, by the way.. especially my initial post ), there are better ways to convey your point.

Through the wording in your first post, it looks like you already have your answer. You don't think water changes are necessary. Based on your testing, all levels are 'good', so what's the point? Right?

To throw in my 2 cents; I see no point in dosing 2-part in a FOWLR system, unless there are pH issues. If "all your parameters are in check" and there's no nitrates because you're carbon dosing (not 'activated carbon' but vodka/sugar/vinegar/Zeovit/Prodibio/VSV/Brightwell... or bio pellets ) and you have chaeto, I'd still do water changes. There are many things in salt water that we're not able to test for, and doing a simple, proper water change every month or so certainly won't hurt.

Here's some further reading and related threads (that actually DO answer your question):

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1994082

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1892805

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-09/rhf/index.php#2

:beer:

 

[E.intheC]

and to add to the above, I think you're also asking the question (and please correct me if I'm wrong ) "How do you KNOW, by looking at the tank, when the water needs to be changed?" ... to that question, the articles and threads mentioned in my above post talk about adding elements (trace and not) to the water that are essential to the fishes health, like iodine, for example. This isn't something that is immediately seen, but over time will negatively affect the health of your tank's inhabitants. You need to consistently do water changes to ensure the levels of these elements don't deplete themselves (in addition to the removal of organics, metals, etc). Hope this helps.

 

[Toddrtrex]

You are making the assumption that the things you listed are the only things that can affect the inhabitants of our tanks.

Granted I keep reef tanks, but I can't recall the last time I had any nitrates, and my Cal, Alk and Mag levels are kept in check with dosing. Yet, the tank -- both fish and inverts -- looks/acts better after each weekly water change. There are 70 some odd elements that make up "salt", and we can only test/monitor a small handful of them.

 

[rwb500]

You are making the assumption that the things you listed are the only things that can affect the inhabitants of our tanks....

not making any assumptions. obviously there is much more than we can test for. i am just wondering how quickly those things get depleted (or in excess) compared to the things we test for. i am not saying i expect to get away with zero water changes.

Honestly, you come off condescending when you pick apart other members answers line by line, and then say that you should just stop asking here in the FOWLR section, and move to the Advanced Topics Forum. Then, you move on to say "...so no surprise there" about misinterpreting posts..

:beer:

thanks for the links, and tips! you are right, i was rude. not been in a great mood today. and yeah i was just talking about cal/alk/mag for the sake of ph and coralline growth.

and to add to the above, I think you're also asking the question (and please correct me if I'm wrong ) "How do you KNOW, by looking at the tank, when the water needs to be changed?" ... to that question, the articles and threads mentioned in my above post talk about adding elements (trace and not) to the water that are essential to the fishes health, like iodine, for example. This isn't something that is immediately seen, but over time will negatively affect the health of your tank's inhabitants. You need to consistently do water changes to ensure the levels of these elements don't deplete themselves (in addition to the removal of organics, metals, etc). Hope this helps.

yes that is basically what i am wondering. that info does help a lot. i am gathering that the importance of water changes is hardly affected at all by biopellets, unless nitrates were previously a huge problem.

im off to do a water change right now lol.

thanks again for the help. didnt mean to be such a jerk. i am easily frustrated.

 

[rwb500]

and einthec, just so you know, i did read about biopellets in fowlr systems a lot and what i found is that there is sometimes bacterial blooms and the pellets are rapidly consumed (compared to a reef). so what they recommend is running a smaller quantity (to prevent blooms) and frequently replacing.

 

[humaguy]

check out dr. tim's pellets...

 

[rwb500]

those are exactly the same as regular pellets. just "all-natural." no different from other biopellets with regard to this discussion.