Hard breathing, but no spots - what is it

S

starseed

New member
Something came into my tank via coral that has infected my fish.

First I noticed my Clown fish was breathing hard and laying on his mushroom, not eating or really swimming.

At this point I though ICK and honestly, I only have 2 choices for treatment.

1) UV and live with an ICK tank
2) let them die

I can't put them in a Q tank, don't have one big enough and I can't keep them in there for 2 months.

So I added a UV with slow flow to help. The next day the clown looked much better and still does, but there are still signs of infection in other fish.

One is hiding and breathing hard and the damsles are also hanging near the surface or high water flow areas.

There are no spots that I can see. I've had ICK a few times in the past (but it has been years) so the spots are obvious and I can't see them.

Options? Thoughts? Ideas? Treatments?

Thanks
 
55 gallon mixed reef - 60 galon water capasity - UV is a 9 watt turbo twist with a flow rate of 50 gallon per hour.

3 Blue Reef Chromis
1 Ocellaris Clownfish
1 Female Squareback Anthias

I accidentally killed a Black Basslet about 3 weeks ago. I kept it in Q w/ copper for two weeks - he did great. As I added it to the main tank, I dropped it on my hard wood floor and heard a loud crack. I added him to the tank and he was dead the next day.

No new fish in the main tank for 2 weeks and no sign of disease

Corals were added weekly though without Qing them.

3 weeks ago I added the 3 Blue Reef Chromis to Q and teated with copper for two weeks. They also looked good and no signs of illness so I added them to the main tank.

The same day the clown came down with the hard breathing. I watched for 24 hours and clearly he was distressed, not eat, and not swimming around. The second day he seemed the same, so I ran out got impulse bought a 9w UV (I might upgrade to a 36w so I can add it to my main return for better turn-over) and hooked it up.

Almost right away the clown looked better. By that night he was eating, but still breathing hard. The next day he looked 90% better and today he seems totally fine.

This started on Friday, I added the UV Saturday, He looked better on Sunday and by Tuesday totally normal.

But...

On Sunday, the Anthias started hiding, but not breathing hard. By Monday, he stopped eating, continued hiding, but was breathing OK. By tuesday he srated breathing hard and today he is having the hardest time.

The Blue Reef Chromis are hard to tell, they are so little, and swim all around anyway, but it does seem like they are swimming in high flow areas or close to the surface - they don't seem stressed though and have been eating fine.

I really can't see any ICK spots and it has been since Friday. In fact I can't see anything visable with any fish, no slime, no fin changes, no leasions, no stops, no fungus, nothing.

Only heavy breathing, not eathing, and hiding.
 
I can't tell if it's ick or brooklynella - other than heavy breathing, there is nothing else to suggest brooklynella or even ick.

I would imagine it is something resistiant to copper or it came from the coral additions
 
Not sure.

Might be simply stress - might be a parasite issue.

Remember that adding new fish to any tank is a "stress event" for both the old inhabitants and the new guy. They all have a pretty small place to call "home" and everyone stakes out a territory which means than any new additions mean a rearranging of that territory.

Stress can result in loss of appetite, rapid breathing and color change .. similar symptoms to some of the more deadly diseases which require medication which in turn require QTing.

There are a variety of diseases that don't have "ich spots" ... brooklynella and marine velvet are two of the more common ailments but there are plenty of others.

If you can provide a picture that may help ... qting with that many fish is a no brainer and cost about $30.
 
I'll try to get a pick tonight.

If it's a bug, it's not killing everything, it's been a week.

I did notice a small red patch, like a red bruse on the Anthias's back. She is the sickest now. Could that help Diagnos?
 
Have many copepods that you can see but cannot identify? If so, I suspect Paraergasilus; aka 'gill maggots'. The females attach themselves to the gill rakers, and effectively bleed the fishes' gills dry. No hemoglobin, no oxygen. Of course, the remedies are not quite desirable for a reef situation......:mad:
 
I cant watch it.... Sorry i can no longer be of help ( not that im much help anyway :( ) sorry bout your Anthias hope it works out.
 
Your movie doesn't come through on my computer ... get a network error type message.

Red spots/blotches are often a sign of a bacterial infection in fish. If its a bacterial infection it may clear up on its own depending how severe the infection is. Sometimes water changes, running some carbon, and supplementing the diet with something more nutritional (selcon etc.) may help.

If its a bacterial problem and you don't see improvement within a week or so then Qting and treating with an antibiotic may be in order. A double dose of Maracyn 2 is usually effective on moderate exterior bacterial problems.
 
OK sopmething is wrong with her mouth. She is hiding in a cave (depp in a cave where I cannot get her) and she came out for a second at feeding and looked like she wanted food.

Her mouth looked like there was some growth, kind of cotteny. She then yawned like her mouth wasn't working right and I could see she could not completely close her mouth.

She didn't eat and quickly swam back to her hole.

I'm guessing she has a secondary infection, like baterial or fungus. Ick may have hit the tank and the hardy fish fought it off from the looks of it, the damsles I can't really tell, but they eat and play. May clown is a lottle slower than normal but looks OK.

I would get her into my 10 gallon Q-tank which is cycles and ready, but I don't think I can get her out.

Any other diagnosis?

Any ideas for getting her out?

PS - the like works with RealPlayer and should open a new window and stream it in realplayer - at least it works for me - I guess I'll have to check-out the video threads for the future
 
I still need a little help....

It looks like the 3 Blue Chromis and Clownfish have fully recovered from the parasite infection (I still don't know what it was though). I think the UV helped reduce the free swimming parasites enough to allow them to fight off the infection and gain a little immunity.

But I am looking out of another out break just in case.

But the Anthias clearly has an infection. I think she has recovered mostly from the parasite, but the secondary infection is affecting her.

I'm not sure exactly what she has and could use your help.

It looks like she has white fuzz in her mouth - I'm assuming it's a bacterial infection, but it could be fungus too, maybe.

Now she is hiding and I cannot get her out buy breaking down the rocks - If I can, I have the Q tank ready for treatment.

Help Help...

1) How do I get her out?
2) What should medications should I treat her with?

Thanks!
 
Starseed,

I couldn't see the lesion on the anthias that you mentioned, but I was able to estimate its respiration rate from the video - about 140 gill beats per minute. That is elevated, but not outside the "normal" range if the water temperature is above 82 degrees. Two potential protozoan problems fit in with your fish's symptoms - Amyloodinium or Uronema. UV will have no benefit for the latter (it reproduces on the body of the fish itself) and would have only a minor benefit for the former. That said, remember that NOBODY can positively ID this without access to a skin scrape from the fish itself and examined under a microscope. Everyone, (including myself) is just GUESSING!

FYI: Here is a section from my Advanced Marine Aquarium Techniques that discusses respiration rates:

Respiration rates: Aquarists are always warned about rapid breathing in their fish as a symptom of potential problems, yet few know just what “rapid” is. Obviously, fish kept in warmer water or those with gill diseases will respire more rapidly. Less obvious is that larger fish respire more slowly and in some cases, high ammonia levels will cause a fish to respire slower. While there is some difference between species, (Chinese algae eaters will breath twice as fast as any other fish their size) most tropical fish of the size kept in home aquariums should breath at a rate of between 80 and 140 gill beats per minute. Pomacanthid angelfish are sometimes known to breathe using only one operculum. They can switch back and forth, and then return to breathing with both opercula, all for no discernable reason. Emperor angelfish, Pomacanthus imperator and moray eels are well known “skip breathers”. It is often helpful to record the baseline respiration rates of your fish â€"œ at a point when you know they are free of stress and healthy. This data can then be used as a reference to check the fish for changes in their health.

Jay Hemdal
 
Great info - unofficially, I do keep a check on my fishes normal breath rates - the chromis are a little hard to figure out.

What about the "cotten" in his mouth? I think she is having a hard time closing her mouth because of it.
 
I do need an idea of what the "cotten" is in her mouth so I know medications to use if/when I catch her.

My Q Tank is ready and cycled (I can hold one, but not all the fish) so I'm spending the day trying to catch her and get her in Q.

If that happens, what medication should I use?

I think the "cotten" is bacteria or fungus, but I'm not sure. I've only seen this once before and it was almost 14 years ago.

It's white and fluffy and she is streching her mouth open often.

She is eating again, but only three of four peices. Although she is eating, she looks worse each day.

I'm sure I can save her if I can catch her in time.
 
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