Help identify this disease

[Ginu]

Well a little history here in order to try and isolate the problem:

I bought the tank(34G AIO aqua euro cube) off a very nice reefer; tank was established and came with a pair of clowns, cleaner wrasse, cleaner shrimp and coral branded shrimp and a sand dollar along with the CUC (snails and crabs)

The sick fish (foxface rabbit) was in the tank however the owner did not want to sell that guy so he took him and placed him in his main aquarium 90gallon or something around there. After we packed the tank we looked at the main tank just to see the fox-face attacked by two very large tangs; the owner took him out and gave it to me to take care of him. Since I brought him home hes always had a white rash looking thing near or close to his fin.
Bout two weeks after i brought the tank home things went really sour with the fox-face. He had a white spot near the tail and some scars on the other side but it seemed to get better and he was recovering quite well from until today when i went to feed them and noticed he was panting on the sand and sitting on his side and noticed his scars were not doing so well...


I took him out of the main aquarium and quickly made a hospital tank with a 2g tank and a aquaclear 30 which i had sitting around(running a sponge, activated carbon and some filter floss). I took 1g from the main tank and 1g had to mix to bring the tank to 2g or so. Now the fish is still breathing, but on his side and looks paralyzed or almost dead (please see pics)

I really don't think he will make it through the nigh and now I'm concerned of the rest of the inhabitants... since I bought the tank, Ive added a wheeler gooby and a peppermint shrimp to deal with a small aptasia problem and a few blue legged hermits and a few small coral frags.

Can anyone identify this disease and perhaps suggest something which I should do in order to make sure this does not happen to the rest of the tank? It would be a disaster...
Much appreciated

http://oi43.tinypic.com/349cti0.jpg

http://oi43.tinypic.com/29ct8o3.jpg

http://oi41.tinypic.com/28vg95k.jpg


Since I brought the tank home, I've done two water changes every Saturday and water parameters were really close to perfect, except last change i had a slight spike in nitrates since i was cleaning the sponges in the filtration system which caused a little spike went from 0-1 to 2.5-5

Water salinity was 1.3 when the aquarium was 1st setup at my home and within two water changes i got it down to 1.26
KH 8-9
PH 8.2 and dropped to 8.1 with the last water change.
Water temp was fluctuating from 79-84 and with the traps lids open i was able to bring it down to 81 with the MHI lights running and now I run a chiller so its between 78 and 80.

Filtration consists of two large sponges about 10-15lb live rock, filter floss and activated carbon which i only use for a few days after water changes.

Any help is much appreciated, thanks

 

[Ginu]

Well... sad time but the foxface died not long ago and now I'm afraid it might spread... Hopefully it wasn't Ich.

 

[snorvich]

Well... sad time but the foxface died not long ago and now I'm afraid it might spread... Hopefully it wasn't Ich.

Unfortunately, your tank most likely has ich (or possibly velvet). All fish should be treated in a separate tank and the display tank left fallow for 9 weeks.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I'm not good with pics and its really hard to tell what's going on with the foxface. Velvet would be a very wild guess; but I'm not even sure its a protozoan parasite. I'd Google "marine velvet"; "brooklynella" and "marine ich". include Google Images and see if you can tell. The foxface also looks very malnourished to me and could have died from any number of thing too. I don't think this fish was 'saveable; just my opinion. I'd get a decent size
HT/QT, watch your other fish closely for spots, signs of scratching, etc.; and never put fish into your main tank without quarantining them first. BTW, you've got a good handle on water parameters; but nitrate at 2.5 sure isn't a spike. many hobbyists would kill for a nitrate reading that low and nitrates really don't bother most fish anyhow; inverts are another story.
EDIT: The more i look at the pics, the more I uspect Velvet. Its a hard stuff to diagnose with pics. If you look at the fish head on, there will be a powdery filmy, coating. If this is velvet, it is very quick, contagious, and deadly. Treating with copper (I prefer Cupramine) is the only dependable cure I know of.

 

[Ginu]

I was really afraid of that... would corals be ok sitting in the DT along with 3 shrimp (cleaner, CBS and peppermint)?

I have a 10g tank somewhere in storage and i should be able to set that up as a QT tank to quarantine 2 clowns and a cleaner wrasse...

What a drag.

 

[snorvich]

I was really afraid of that... would corals be ok sitting in the DT along with 3 shrimp (cleaner, CBS and peppermint)?

I have a 10g tank somewhere in storage and i should be able to set that up as a QT tank to quarantine 2 clowns and a cleaner wrasse...

What a drag.

Corals do not host parasites, so yes, they can remain while the tank remains fishless. At the moment I cannot see squat (cataract surgery tomorrow) so I cannot tell anything from pictures.

 

[Ginu]

Corals do not host parasites, so yes, they can remain while the tank remains fishless. At the moment I cannot see squat (cataract surgery tomorrow) so I cannot tell anything from pictures.

Ugh hope the surgery goes ok tomorrow. What power head should i use for a 10G tank and a 30Aquaclear hang on back filter packed with filter floss? guess i will take the activated carbon out in case i have to treat fish in there.

What about shrimps? will they be ok in the DT for 9 weeks or so with possible parasites?

 

[cngreg]

I don't see any indication of ich in your photos. My guess would be bacterial infection of those cuts inflicted by tangs. Even two weeks later, the scar tissue sloughs and may make a gap in the skin barrier. Please look at one of the threads on ich (cryptocaryon irritans) and look at the life cycle. While the disease sometimes presents different between species and individuals (some fish build an immunity to it, some fish slime up more), if you do have it you might see white salt grain spots on the clowns. I'd suspect it may have come in on the fish you've added since buying the setup. Was it from a reputable source? How do the clear parts of the fins and the eyes of your fish look?

 

[Ginu]

I don't see any indication of ich in your photos. My guess would be bacterial infection of those cuts inflicted by tangs. Even two weeks later, the scar tissue sloughs and may make a gap in the skin barrier. Please look at one of the threads on ich (cryptocaryon irritans) and look at the life cycle. While the disease sometimes presents different between species and individuals (some fish build an immunity to it, some fish slime up more), if you do have it you might see white salt grain spots on the clowns. I'd suspect it may have come in on the fish you've added since buying the setup. Was it from a reputable source? How do the clear parts of the fins and the eyes of your fish look?

Well I've read alot about ich/marine velvet and the closest it can come to one of those would be marine velvet.
The other inahabitants of the tank seem to be fine, they are all well and eating and no signs of salt grain spots on the clowns... and it would be super easy to spot as they are black clowns

The two inhabitants Ive added are the wheelers gooby and peppermint shrimp and both came from a reputable source J&L Aquatics in Vancouver (probably the biggest marine fish store or one of the biggest in GVA)
I've added 4 coral frags which came from a reefer so this is questionable... I should have quarantined them for a period of time b4 adding to the DT.

I am a little dilemma since I really don't want to stress the fish even more by moving them to a QT tank which i will still have to setup.
Now lets assume the QT tank is setup, so should I move all the fish over and treat them with Cupramine even though they seem healthy? This silly parasite is tough to catch and when a fish shows the sign of it, its pretty much game over for him

 

[MrTuskfish]

Stress by catching is a whole lot less than stress by velvet. IF this was velvet; all fish are in serious trouble as the parasite is just in another of its life-cycle forms. Again IF its velvet--- can't really tell from the pic; you don't get the grace period to get treatment going , like you do with ich. IMO IME; "stress" from moving a fish just is no big deal. I think its more stressful on the hobbyist than the fish. Fish on the reef spend half of their lives running from predators.

 

[Ginu]

I'm still not convinced it was Marine Velvet or Ich.... Marine Velvet seems to be the closest, however its not the same as I've seen in other pictures...

It almost seems like some sort of a fungus or possible that the fish could never recuperate from the two tangs. I'm most likely still going to setup the QT/HT 10G in a corner somewhere and be ready to deal with something else...

I wonder if I should just take all the fish out and treat them with copper regardless and letting the DT tank just cycle out for 9 weeks and go from there

 

[Triton_Z]

It does not appear to be ich or velvet from the pictures you provided.

The tattered fins and white mass appear to be a likely bacterial infection and/or fin rot. I would continue to keep a watch on all the current fish and move if any fish shows signs of a problem.

IMO, I would continue to watch and be ready to move. A QT is always good to have ready no matter what, so I would proceed with setting up a tank for the possible move.

 

[alprazo]

Fish looked emaciated in the photos. In the first photo it looked pinched; A sign of pending doom. The fin tears and body scars are likely abrasions from glancing off the rock and substrate, either to shake Protozoa or to avoid bullying fish. Hopefully the latter. By the time you can diagnose velvet by a photo on RC, it is getting pretty close to too late. also the bio load in the water column would be high enough for the other fish to start showing signs. Watch the respirations.

 

[alprazo]

Snorvich, good luck with the surgery. Your world will soon be a brighter place.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Snorvich, good luck with the surgery. Your world will soon be a brighter place.

When he returns, this forum section will be a little brighter too!