HELP!! I've got ICK!!

[StupidsReef]

Ok I've got a Royal Gramma that has ICK. This is completely my fault because I didn't use a QT tank. That's my fault and I guess I get what I deserve I went to the Forums and have been reading the FISH DISEASE forums on Ick. From what I understand there really is only about 3 options I have here.

1) Capture this fish and flush it. ( NOT what I want to do)

2) Capture ALL my fish place them in a QT tank and Hyposalinty them. (Very slowly dropping salinity to 1.009 while maintaining near perfect water parms with a temp of 81* to 83* for at least 72 days)

3) Or just letting this go and see if the fish can defeat the disease on there own. (Can happen, but 99% of the time never happens)

From what I understand NONE of the methods actually kill or defeat the disease ICK, just keep it undercontroll to a point( From what I've read, I don't know this to be a fact). I have three fish in this tank.

1) Royal Gramma

2) Maroon Clown

3) Yellow Tang

Water parms are:

1) Salinity 1.025
2) nitrite 0 ppm
3)Nitrate 0 ppm
4) ammonia 0 ppm
5)ph 8.3
6)calcium 380 (a little low I know )
7) Iron 0.0
8)Phosphate 0.5

I'm an invert man. I'm not big on the fish. I've only had inverts other than 3 clowns I got from Kathy ( Which I gave to my best friend for his new SW tank before I bought these). Which was doing fine. But last weekend I bought the other three fish from LSF's. 2 of them from one LSF & 1 from other. The one who has ICK was from the store where I bought the 2 from so I'm sure the Yellow tang has ICK as well. Has anyone here ever had to fight this disease?? I also have 1 Cleaner Shrimp, I've heard they could up. Is that true?? When I QT these fish should I place the Cleaner Shrimp in the QT tank with them?? Or would the slow drop in salinity be fatal to him?? I've fought ICK with my wife's FW tank and it wasn't a pretty fight. But this is completely different and I must admit, I don't really know just what to do
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance
Mike.

 

[tetra9999]

the shrimp would die from the low salinity as well as from the copper treatment used to kill the ick

 

[Arsenal11]

mike, i had several ick problems early in this hobby, about a year ago, now i run a uv sterlizer & have had no problems since, can you catch the fish & do a freshwater dip on them?I found that a freshwater dip & a cleaner shrimp can take care of the problem but im sure others on here have more knowlage of this problem.

 

[StupidsReef]

Well I'll have to catch them, I can't just let them die. I'll have to break down the tank, due to they keep hidding in the rock when the net or a bag hits the water. I thought about the fresh water dip, But the Ick would still be present in the tank. And they'd get it again so I've read. But I don't know if thats true, so I thought I'd ask. I'll try any though. How long do I dip them? And do I dip in RO/DI water or tap??

 

[StupidsReef]

tetra, I don't want to use anything with copper. I've read a lot of bad things about copper and SW. Again I've only read not tried.

 

[Letmegrow]

Have no fear !

Use Kent RxP, I have used it, it is reef safe, I have used it as low as a 1/3 does and it cured ich in 36 hours.

It's common for new fish to show ich because of the stressful tank switch. You could have a fish in QT for a year and if it gets freaked out it will have ich spots in no time.

Also since one fish has ich it does not mean that the rest of them will. The best way to avoid ich is to make sure that no fish are stressed or threatend by the new fish. Equally if not more importantly make sure all of your fish are eating their natural diets/diet substitutes, IE Tangs get their veggie / and Cardinals get their meaty bits. With otu the proper diet it's really hard to avoid negative health issues with fish. Make sure your water quality is not the stress cause or issue in your tank too !

The only way to be almost 90% positive you do not get ich in your display is to get a UV sterilizer. Now don't fly out the door to get one, I feel that they kill more benificial things you want in your system. They also cost alot in the long run to operate.
If you had a fish only tank, I would reccomend one, reef tanks, not so much.

 

[Letmegrow]

Never use Hyposalinity in a display tank - EVER,

I am not a fan of Fresh water dipping unless the fish is absolutly LOADED with parasites. If you do, make sure pH is 8.2ish and the temp is 80F. Also before you put the fish back in the tank have a bucket of aquarium water from your tank with a big squeeze of Stress Coat in it, very important, so the fish can get it's slime on and it reduces some ammonia from when you litterally scared the pee out of it. Once the sick fish soaks in there for a couple of mins, put it back in the display.
I would always do this with the lights off in the room and in the tank.

 

[Arsenal11]

Mike usually 3 min or so on the fw dip, i use ro water at the same temp as my tank water & I (the guy with much less if any knowlage of saltwater) would disagree with peewee (hey that rimes) i think my uv was my best investment as i have had zero problems with my fish since hooking it up.

 

[StupidsReef]

Yes Letmegrow, we have chadded before about the UV units and agreed that I didn't really want to use one. The tang has both frozen veggies and the sheets. What is this RxP stuff and where do I get it??

 

[Letmegrow]

It's a reef safe medication for Ich, I can't tell you within the rules of RC where to get it.

The tang should be fine then, also try the Formula 2 spirulina flakes made by Ocean Nutrition.

Let me add that I do like the idea of UVS on occasions like this, where you run it for a week on an Ich scare, then shut it off when the terror alert turns to lavender.

 

[Arsenal11]

steve, i run mine 24/7 am i killing good bacteria? If so i guess i could shut it down as i plan on adding no more fish, i have just had no outbreaks of anything since adding it so i keep running it. Corals all seem to be doing well.

 

[Letmegrow]

You are missing out on, Phyto and Zooplankton(pods). I imagine bacteria too. Also benificial algaes like coraline.

With all the fish you have Kurt, it is probly not a bad idea to run yours every so often to make sure no one gets it. You will generate ALOT of goodies with the size tank and sump you have that will never make it to the UV, so you could go 24/7 or occasionaly, it would be a good test to see if you notice a diff. But I would rather see you error on the side of caution and not get any of the awesome monsters you have sick.

 

[Arsenal11]

Steve the uv kills pods, hate to see how many id have with no uv, im guessing that 1/3-1/2 of my water misses the uv? & i dose dt's 3-4x week, agramilk 2x week & feed oyster eggs 2x week so am i good?

 

[Letmegrow]

It kills pod babies, and probly copepods, I doubt it would get an adult amphipod.

The DT's when passed through will be nuked, rememebr that any plankton or larvae going through will die.

Argamilk is fine. Oyster Eggs usually get consumed IMMEDIATLY - that stuff is awesome stuff.

I think your system is fine, just a little cleaner than most peoples ? I would be more concerned about keeping up on nutrient export via water changes and skimming (which you do) than what you kill with the UV.

 

[Freed]

Letmegrow, where did you learn your interesting knowledge of ich and what causes it and how it thrives and spreads?

 

[Arsenal11]

imike sorry on highjacking your thread, steve actually been getting better on the water change, did 2 100gal in the last month & now the canyo problem is gone & all seems to be doing well, thanks for the help. & the new skimmer is awsome!

kurt

 

[Letmegrow]

6 years of keeping tanks ?

I know the whole ich cycle from begining to end, so if that's your point I am way passed that.

 

[Letmegrow]

You're very welcome Kurt.

I do not think Freed has confidence in me.

 

[leebca]

StupidsReef:

Your premise that you have only 3 options is incorrect. Let me begin there. Your items 1) and 3) though tempting, are of course irresponsible reefkeeping. I certainly don't know you, maybe you are or maybe you aren't. You took at least some time to inquire and investigate, so I'm assuming you are, for the most part, a responsible aquarist.

The item 2) is incomplete. There are at least 4 different means of defeating Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans). If you want the facts, please read this two-part article:
Steven Proââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s article on Marine Ich (Part 1):
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.htm
(Part 2):
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.htm

There's too much detail to go into for a post, but your options are outlined above.

There are no miracle cures, and the so-called 'reef safe' cures are not documented with data and experiments to show they work. Some people think they do; scientists know better.

No matter what legitimate choice you make for treatment, all the fish need to be removed from your display for treatment.

Your statement of 'keeping Marine Ich (MI) under control' isn't true. You have much yet to learn of this disease. The 4 methods I alluded to above, either KILL MI, or keep the fish from becoming re-infected.

Have I fought this disease? I have had marine aquariums since 1968. I have studied MI at OSU for three years. During the time I obtained my degree in Microbiology and degree in Chemistry at OSU, I conducted experiments with MI including treatments involving garlic, antibiotics, dips, and nutrition. Since 1970, and over 1,000 fish later, I have not had MI in my display tanks. I have though, fought it fairly routinely in my QTs. It is an insidious lifeform, but if you understand it, it is easily defeated AND easily preventable from getting into your display tank.

Cleaner shrimp go through a lot of motions, but they have never been shown to actually control a MI outbreak nor stop this organisms death march. This is scientific fact. But, you'll always find aquarists who swear they saved their fish.

Since inverts are not affected by MI, they (e.g., your shrimp)remain in the display tank. Also, inverts are harmed by some of the possible treatment options. The display tank must go at least 8 weeks fishless. With no fish around, MI dies off. BUT, do not add anything to the tank during this time (even inverts) that might carry the disease in the water they come in or that might be attached, riding in as hitchhikers.

You'll find most the quarantine information you need here:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.htm

And, in the Fish Disease Treatment Forum, where I spend most of my time, you'll find threads discussing MI.

Before any steps are taken, you must be sure of your diagnosis.

Good luck!

 

[Freed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6906645#post6906645 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Letmegrow


I do not think Freed has confidence in me.

I don't have confidence in your methods/procedures.