Help me design my indoor coldwater azoox(nps) display tank

AquaticEngineer

AquaticEngineer

New member
I have quite a bit of time on my hands for the next few weeks with paternity leave and vacation ( just had son # 2 on the 4th) So I thought while the baby sleeps and the toddler naps I can try and come up with a good final design for my coldwater indoor display tank.

The area I have to work with has a footprint of 72"x26", so I would like to do a tank that is 72"L x 24"W. Not sure yet on the height, that is the variable that can change. It will mostly be affected by total price of the front viewing pane.

The stand will be built in place and sheet rocked, textured, trimmed, and painted to match the rest of the house to give a built in look. There will be open shelves below that can be removed with glass front doors like a media tower would have and I may end up putting in a tinted glass front refridgerator to house the auto feeder in alot like a built in wine fridge. The shelving will take the place of my current media center and eliminate one piece of furniture from the living room. This way I can use it for my current tank designs but if we ever sell the house this will allow for some of the shelving to be removed and a good sized sump to be added inside and have it set up as a regular saltwater tank.

One thing that will help with the overall design is that all the filtration, and chilling will be taken care of by my 2 marineland lobster tanks in the garage. So the only thing that has to be in the house will be the autofeeder minifridge in the stand under the tank. I will have a closed loop running through the bottom of the tank that will provide 90% of the flow and also deliver food from the auto feeder.

The tank will be open top and dimly lit from above with spot lights, and a spotlight from the side at a dramatic angle to give more shadows. I want it open top because I love looking down at my animals like in a tide pool. Since I wont have any photosynthetic animals in the tank I can have the lights set quite a ways off the waters surface.

One thing I cant decide on is the placement and design of the overflow for the plumbing that will run to and from the tanks in the garage. I want it to be in the least visible spot possible. So I am thinking of having a single corner overflow with the return line running inside the overflow box. This will also create the shortest distance from inside tank, to outside tanks. The one thing I am concerned with will be surface skimming with a single overflow.

As it sits right now the size and design of the tank will be fairly straight forward. It will essentially be a eurobraced 125g wide, or 180 wide with a single corner overflow and a closed loop on the bottom of the tank. The one thing thats going to increase the price is that I will need at a minimum, the front viewing panel of the tank done in 3/4 inch or 1 inch acrylic to prevent sweating on the viewing panel. On the sides, back, and bottom I am trying to figure out other ways to insulate the tank well and prevent sweating other than thick acrylic since those sides wont be visible.

Any suggestions, ideas, comments, concerns, or bits of wisdom you feel like sharing are more than welcome and appreciated

****So I think I may have found a product that will allow me to use thinner acrylic like 3/8 on the back sides and bottom of my tank and only use a 3/4 or 1 inch front viewing panel. ****

http://tempcoat.com/temp-coat-products/temp-coat-marine-applications/prod_23.html
Here's what it says about the product:
Marine "Full contact marine insulation and anti-sweat"

Lloyd's Register SAS / F96 / 640 - TEMP-COAT® 101 insulation coating has been reviewed by Lloyd's Register and has been classified as a Fire Resisting Material, having Low Flame Spread characteristics and suitable as a vapor barrier or for pipe and cargo space and refrigerated compartments.

TEMP-COAT® 101 is used widely to control
condensation caused by changes and differences in temperature on hulls, bulkheads, overheads, pipes, refrigerated equipment and other surfaces which tend to develop moisture related problems. It's a very flexible insulation, which is used regularly on barges, push boats, tugs, fishing fleets, pleasure crafts, drilling rigs and platforms, offshore machinery, piping, pipelines, boilers, water separators, sleeping quarters and much, much more.

TEMP-COAT® 101 contains no V.O.C.s or heavy metals. Its nontoxic, completely safe and can be used in personnel quarter. If you don't use TEMP-COAT® you are missing the boat!!
Click to expand...
 
AquaticEngineer said:
One thing I cant decide on is the placement and design of the overflow for the plumbing that will run to and from the tanks in the garage. I want it to be in the least visible spot possible. So I am thinking of having a single corner overflow with the return line running inside the overflow box. This will also create the shortest distance from inside tank, to outside tanks. The one thing I am concerned with will be surface skimming with a single overflow.
Click to expand...

I've seen guys do an external overflow like the one pictured below. I don't know how much room you will have behind your tank, but this might be a good option. That way you wouldn't see any part of the overflow from inside the tank. You could even go for almost the entire length of the tank this way.

9114c92a59477834.jpg
 
No room behind the tank, its against a wall that has my furnace and hot water heater on the other side in the garage.

But that idea gives me an idea :D

I could do the same thing on the one end of the tank because that end is against a wall that has a closet that is under our stairs. I could do the tank as a a true eurobraced or rimless 125 or 180 and have the external overflow hang through the wall into the closet so I have access to it and it wouldnt be visible. That will also make plumbing the drain and return that much easier into the garage. Whoo Hooo :dance:
 
Glad to hear I could be of help.

I find it hard to believe that you actually have time now that you are on paternity leave with your second kid! We just had our second kid this last september and it has been crazy around my house. I thought I was busy with one kid, but two is out of control. I have two girls and they are 23 months apart. Anyways, I'm envious that you are able to embark on this project. I moved and started a new job when my wife was pregnant and I haven't had the chance to start up an aquarium yet. It might be another two years before I get a chance or have the money to start up again...

Anyways, I don't have a tank set up, but from the sounds of it most of these tanks are having to deal with a lot of excess phosphates and nitrates. I personally would deal with them by using an oversized remote deep sand bed, an oversized sump with macro algae, and an algae turf scrubber since it sounds like you have room to do so in your garage. However this thread talks about the use of bio pellets to achieve this with a great deal of success in NPS systems.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1935520

I figure that the extra water volume involved to support the remote deep sand bed and oversized refugium would help to stabalize the tank and would also provide more habitat for copepods to flourish. However, from what I've read, the bio pellets also harbor some potentially beneficial bacteria that are/could be consumed by the organisms in the tank. So I guess each system has a benefit.

I've been doing a lot of thought on how I'd cultivate my own plankton and rotifers so I could supply a constant live population of both cheaply to a large system and I kind of took over the bottom part of this thread:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1968834

You don't have to worry about live plankton fouling up your water and I'd immagine that the live plankton would be more nutritious (or at least favored more) than the non-living plankton.

So right now I've just been lurking and trying to research and learn as much as I can about NPS until I get the time and money to set up a system myself. These are just some of the things floating around in my head and I hope it at least gives you a couple of ideas.
 
victor_c3 said:
Glad to hear I could be of help.

I find it hard to believe that you actually have time now that you are on paternity leave with your second kid! We just had our second kid this last september and it has been crazy around my house. I thought I was busy with one kid, but two is out of control. I have two girls and they are 23 months apart. Anyways, I'm envious that you are able to embark on this project. I moved and started a new job when my wife was pregnant and I haven't had the chance to start up an aquarium yet. It might be another two years before I get a chance or have the money to start up again...
Click to expand...

LOL, yeah my oldest son is almost 3 and he's the one that takes most of the time and effort. We are keeping him home from daycare for the next few weeks so he doesn't bring anything home to get us or the baby sick.

I don't think I will actually get any of done while on leave, but it seems like I have a lot of extra time on the computer to plan about how I can get it done :lmao:

I really like your idea about cultivating the live plankton, I'll have to ask my friend at the Hatfield Marine Science center if he has any tips. With the bulk of the equipment being housed in the garage I've been looking at a variety of additional filters, like trying out turf scrubbers, RDSB's, refugiums. The one thing that I'm not sure of is the rate at which bacteria will break down waste in temperatures in the high 50's. Since the metabolic rates are slowed at lower temperatures I don't know how effective a RDSB would be.
 
aninjaatemyshoe said:
Are you planning to build this yourself or have it custom-made?
Click to expand...

aninjaatemyshoe said:
If you're thinking of doing it yourself, perhaps you could do a plywood tank with a double-pane of glass.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1686583&page=17
Click to expand...

Thought about it but decided I didn't want the top edge to have a rim on it which I would need if I did a double pane. I want it to look as seemless as possible. More like there is a coldwater tidepool in my living room as opposed to a fish tank.

I think acrylic gives a much more clean, clear, crisp look when done as a rimless or even eurobraced tank.
 
I'm not sure how much DIY you've done before, but if you don't already have a router do yourself a favor and buy a Porter-Cable router when you do. I initially bought a Ridgid (Home depot) brand router with the intentions of doing aquarium DIY projects, but I soon found myself going all-out and getting into wood working. Porter-Cable essentially is the stanard when it comes to routers and all accessories (like router tables) will fit a Porter-Cable router.

Also, they three different varieties of routers - a fixed base, a plunge base, or a kit that lets you swap your router motor between the two bases. The last is what I'd recommend, as seen in the link below.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2004981/10833/PorterCable-214-HP-VS-Router-Kit-Model-895PK.aspx

I bought a Ridgid brand router fixed base/plunge router kit and was completely happy with it until I went to buy a router table. I couldn't find one that would fit my router and I had to go out and buy a Porter-Cable router to fit my router table. I could have saved myself $300 by buying the Porter-Cable to begin with...
 
I didn't realize that you were planning on setting up a tank with a temperature in the high 50's...

If you're worried about the metabolism of the bacteria that would break down the waste at that temperature, I'd just make your remoted deep sand beds a little bigger. If there is enough food and habitat to support them, the bacteria populations will grow until either of the two isn't available anymore (if that makes sense).

As far as plankton goes, I'd be carefull to select species that would thrive in those temperatures if you were going to cultivate them yourself. Fortunately Nannochloropsis oculata (the strain that is used the most in aquaculture and in plankton food supplements) will thrive between 60 and 86 degrees (according to the article linked below):

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/aug2002/breeder.htm

I don't have the link on my home computer, but at work I found a university that sells samples of live planktons from all over the world and they have quite an extensive and searchable catalog. If I remember to do so, I'll post the link tomorrow when I'm at work. So, if you were looking to recreate the environment off the coast of Oregon, then you'd be able to purchase the strains of plankton that are present in that environment. They sort the strains by location and even tell you which strains are bioluminescent - which would make your tank look freaky in the dark!! Do a google immage search for bioluminescent plankton for some ideas. After looking at the pictures, I don't think thats what I'd do with my aquarium...

Going through some of the links I've come up with an saved over the years, below is a link for an aquaculture supply company. They have quite a large selection of large and inexspensive holding containers which you might find useful for your sumps or various storage containers.

http://www.aquaticeco.com/
 
I found this with a quick search
You can order bioluminescent dinoflagellates from Sunnyside Sea Farms, 475 Kellogg
Way, Goleta, CA 93117-3804 (Tel 805-964-3755, e-mail: sunnyside@seafarms.com).
The first 50 ml bag is $6.00 and the price drops the more bags you purchase. These
dinoflagellates have the scientific name Pyrocystis fusiformis, which literally means
spindle-shaped (fusiform) fire (Pyro) cell (cystis).
Click to expand...
 
Found the tank I'm going to get (hopefully) It is 58" x 24" x 48" made out of 1.25 thick acrylic.

I'm hoping to set it up as a peninula tank with it being visible from one end, one full side and half of the other side. I'm gonna build some artificial pier pylons out of large diameter PVC and let them get encrusted and covered with inverts :D

This is the look I want to go for!!!

3840387759_09d1ccbecf_b.jpg
 
Sounds like a cool idea (pardon the pun... :)).

I see you have thought about the condensation issue - nice. Many people overlook this and are disappointed later. Depending on temperature you are going for, I'm not sure 1" acrylic will keep the condensation away. But, that all depends on the conditions in your house. We have 2" acrylic tanks kept at 50F (10C) that sweat constantly all summer long - but of course, that is in hot and humid D.C. - probably not the same...? Winter is totally fine.

If you do go with 1" acrylic and condensation is still an issue, then you can add a fan blowing across the acrylic to help out. Also, consider any pvc pipes that might not run over an open water source (like to/from a skimmer if it is remote, for example). These will form condensation and also drip everywhere. If you skimmer is remote, you can set it in a tray with a drain hole and have the hose drain to a bucket.

I like to look you are going for - sounds awesome, and there are so many Pacific Northwest inverts that are amazing. You mentioned lighting - in that pic that you showed, the A. xanthogrammica anemones are zooxanthellate, if I remember correctly, fyi.

Good luck.

Cheers
Mike
 
ousnakebyte said:
I see you have thought about the condensation issue - nice. Many people overlook this and are disappointed later. Depending on temperature you are going for, I'm not sure 1" acrylic will keep the condensation away. But, that all depends on the conditions in your house. We have 2" acrylic tanks kept at 50F (10C) that sweat constantly all summer long - but of course, that is in hot and humid D.C. - probably not the same...? Winter is totally fine.
Click to expand...

Steve Weast has filled me in on a lot of his experiences with the sweating issues, hopefully I will be getting a tank soon that is 1.25" acrylic. Also, the water temp will be near 58F and the inside temp usually is around 70F at the warmest with the exception of the summer time for a few days. Humidity isnt bad around here, even in the summer.

ousnakebyte said:
If you do go with 1" acrylic and condensation is still an issue, then you can add a fan blowing across the acrylic to help out. Also, consider any pvc pipes that might not run over an open water source (like to/from a skimmer if it is remote, for example). These will form condensation and also drip everywhere. If you skimmer is remote, you can set it in a tray with a drain hole and have the hose drain to a bucket.
Click to expand...

For the PVC pipes that I will have exposed, I am going to use schedule 80 PVC which has a thicker wall, and I may be using a product called "Temp-Coat" on top of that, or wrapping all the pipes in insulation.

All the filtration for this setup will be housed inside of the the 2 lobster tanks in the garage.

ousnakebyte said:
I like to look you are going for - sounds awesome, and there are so many Pacific Northwest inverts that are amazing. You mentioned lighting - in that pic that you showed, the A. xanthogrammica anemones are zooxanthellate, if I remember correctly, fyi.
Click to expand...

Yeah they are one of the only anemones that I will be encountering when collecting that are photsynthetic. I probably wont have any in my system. Most of the lighting for the tank will be just for aesthetics.

Right now I have 2 x 14inch waterproof LED tubes over one of the lobster tanks and its looks pretty sweet. With the inside tank, it will be so deep that I will need to use much higher output LED's and some optics to get the depth penetration I want.
 
Sounds sweet. I look forward to future updates.

If you get bored and are looking for a change, throw a Sunflower Star in there for a while. Voracious, but sooooooooooooo awesome. :)

Cheers
Mike
 
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