Help please

Status
Not open for further replies.

cmberry

New member
ok i have had tanks for the last 30 years. I used to have a saltwater tank back in the day so I figured I would give it another shot. sorry for the pictures. the iphone and the kessel light dont work well together.

Anyway, when i first started i had green star polyps that did good and some branching hammers. They did well also. then they eventually started to be not real happy. hammers died. green star closed up in is in the process of dieing off. the only parameter i have had problems with is nitrogen. ive backed way off feeding to try and minimize this.
i now have a sump in my basement, protein skimmer, mangrove and cheato to suck up nitrogen. I thought my well water maybe the culprit. so i installed a RODI. no change. Nitrogen still wants to climb but ive been doing weekly and even biweekly water changes. The algae is a greenish brown to brown so i was thinking diatoms. my tank is well past cycled been up and running for 6 months. phosphates are zero. i put a anemone in and it almost dies instantly.
fish seem fine. there are small white particles in the water. i first thought they were microbubbles, but some appear to be not round. Thinking maybe plastic from the newly installed pvc plumbing to the sump, but i would think the filter sock would get rid of it so i started thinking maybe its something else. Mag is 1300, calcium 430, alk 9. salinity .025. please advise.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0623.JPG
    IMG_0623.JPG
    52.3 KB · Views: 4
  • IMG_0624.JPG
    IMG_0624.JPG
    65.2 KB · Views: 6
  • IMG_0625.JPG
    IMG_0625.JPG
    56.8 KB · Views: 5
  • IMG_0626.JPG
    IMG_0626.JPG
    52.9 KB · Views: 5
  • IMG_0627.JPG
    IMG_0627.JPG
    47.6 KB · Views: 3
better pictures

better pictures

these are better
 

Attachments

  • Image-1.png
    Image-1.png
    18.9 KB · Views: 3
  • Image-1.jpg
    Image-1.jpg
    19.4 KB · Views: 6
***?
Worst pics I've ever seen here.. :p

Turn the blue lights OFF... We can't see a darn thing there and I think I'm having a bad acid trip..

Also.. don't just say "nitrogen" is bad.. (and its not nitrogen BTW..).. Please post your "nitrate" results along with all others you have.. Actual numbers are useful..
 
That's not a mature tank at 6 months by far.
If your having problems with high nitrates, this is a clear sign that your bio filter is still quite young, or two many fish, or too much feed, or all three.
You could consider carbon dosing which will help to establish a larger population of bacteria.
When first cycled, this is just the beginning, not the end and it may be more like 12-18 months to establish a biofilter capable of stabilizing your nitrates.

Corals do not do well in an unstable environment, but, will tolerate minor parameters ranges inconsistencies provided these are stable.

In 30 years, I have never achieved chemically stable water in 6 months.

We start to see good balance in a well maintained tank starting around 12 months.
 
Last edited:
That's not a mature tank at 6 months by far.
If your having problems with high nitrates, this is a clear sign that your bio filter is still quite young, or two many fish, or too much feed, or all three.
You could consider carbon dosing which will help to establish a larger population of bacteria.
When first cycled, this is just the beginning, not the end and it may be more like 12-18 months to establish a biofilter capable of stabilizing your nitrates.

Corals do not do well in an unstable environment, but, will tolerate minor parameters ranges inconsistencies provided these are stable.

In 30 years, I have never achieved chemically stable water in 6 months.

We start to see good balance in a well maintained tank starting around 12 months.

Thank you for your input. The one before was just pretty useless. Ill wait until the tank matures more. the Duncan i have is surviving, just not real happy.
 
Blue light

Blue light

***?
Worst pics I've ever seen here.. :p

Turn the blue lights OFF... We can't see a darn thing there and I think I'm having a bad acid trip..

Also.. don't just say "nitrogen" is bad.. (and its not nitrogen BTW..).. Please post your "nitrate" results along with all others you have.. Actual numbers are useful..
 
Blue light

Blue light

***?
Worst pics I've ever seen here.. :p

Turn the blue lights OFF... We can't see a darn thing there and I think I'm having a bad acid trip..

Also.. don't just say "nitrogen" is bad.. (and its not nitrogen BTW..).. Please post your "nitrate" results along with all others you have.. Actual numbers are useful..

Thank you for the insulting advice. I realize it's nitrate. And I did post levels. I also posted that my iPhone and kessil aren't cooperating with pics. It's really not that blue. I'm glad you can troll the new reefer section to make u feel substantial.
 
Relax there fella... No need to get triggered so easily... I was actually nice.. ;)
I don't see where you posted your nitrate levels in the original post...
And turning the blue channel off/way down will draatically improve your photos and allow much better color rendition...Try that and post the pics again..

Particulate could be sand/contaminates in the sand or it could be animals like pods,etc...
 
Reply

Reply

Relax there fella... No need to get triggered so easily... I was actually nice.. ;)
I don't see where you posted your nitrate levels in the original post...
And turning the blue channel off/way down will draatically improve your photos and allow much better color rendition...Try that and post the pics again..

Particulate could be sand/contaminates in the sand or it could be animals like pods,etc...

With two water changes. Inverts are more active. Nitrate was about 20ppm before. DUNCAN still isn't happy however, green star I'm pretty sure is a rip. The red stuff growing is I assume a red coralline or something? Maybe a sponge. I have a doser now and will have it up amid running.
I guess I just need to get things stable and let the tank mature more before I. Try again.
 

Attachments

  • AB135F0E-1F84-465C-B43A-909E7B5805D5.jpg
    AB135F0E-1F84-465C-B43A-909E7B5805D5.jpg
    51.9 KB · Views: 4
  • 7056FAFA-2D88-44D6-B485-FFCC09A6AB41.jpg
    7056FAFA-2D88-44D6-B485-FFCC09A6AB41.jpg
    54.4 KB · Views: 6
  • F2BC724C-E001-4E7F-8337-92048F0F8021.jpg
    F2BC724C-E001-4E7F-8337-92048F0F8021.jpg
    55.8 KB · Views: 5
  • 282405D4-2DA0-40E6-84A4-35F538A84626.jpeg
    282405D4-2DA0-40E6-84A4-35F538A84626.jpeg
    63.2 KB · Views: 6
  • F45B06A5-85E7-43C6-ACE0-B578775E9E7E.jpg
    F45B06A5-85E7-43C6-ACE0-B578775E9E7E.jpg
    46.2 KB · Views: 5
Its highly unlikely that dosing is needed at this point.. 10-20% water changes every other wek alone are usually more than sufficient until you have quite a few actively growing corals.. Water changes alone will keep levels where they need to be.. Dose ONLY when water changes arent sufficient..

Those pictures are much better...You are certainly in the new tank ugly stages with green hair/film algae and even some typical cyanobacteria... Best to wait all that out before attempting corals.. 20ppm of nitrate in a tank that age is not a problem at all..Thats actually fairly good..Often new tanks are 50+ppm... Time/patience is your friend here...let the uglies pass..
 
With two water changes. Inverts are more active. Nitrate was about 20ppm before. DUNCAN still isn't happy however, green star I'm pretty sure is a rip. The red stuff growing is I assume a red coralline or something? Maybe a sponge. I have a doser now and will have it up amid running.
I guess I just need to get things stable and let the tank mature more before I. Try again.

I don't see much wrong, just a bit early in the maturity cycle.

Continue to work towards stability in all 8 major parameters and once you can achieve this, most all corals will do quite well.

Stability also comes with making changes REAL slow, but consistently.

I certainly agree you should be able to be in target range with a good salt and 10% change weekly. Also, keep nutrients as low as possible, but not zero, some have found N 2-5ppm, maybe up to 10ppm and P to work in the 0.03 -0.1ppm range.

I would commence carbon dosing if your N is above 30ppm, otherwise not.

When tests show a trend downwards in Alk, this is when you start dosing, but start by hand first so you get a feel for the consumption rate.

Could be a bit messy for another few months so scrub what you need to, keep nutrients low as possible

From what I see in your pics, your certainly moving in the right direction.
 
I thought my well water maybe the culprit. so i installed a RODI.

If you originally filled the tank with tap water (well water), you may have gotten some type of contaminant (copper/zinc/tin or other metal). invertebrates can be very sensitive to some metals.
 
To control the nitrates you can try using salt sprayed with bacteria that eats the nitrates, I use probiotic reef salt from aquaforest and keep one of those nanos that people claim cannot be done.

Pachyclavularia, or Briareum, Green star/five star polyps can be different types, the asbestos version is highly toxic and should be kept alone. They also like some nitrates, right now the problem in your tank is probably the anemone that died, you need to try to salvage what you can from dying along with the anemone because it released its stingers into the water column when it died, together with lots and lots of ammonia.

Anemones are very tired right when you put them into a new tank. They do not have lots of energy and you have to make sure it does not turn over on its mouth and that it will not be pushed around but settle. I would not suggest mixing them with reef corals, anemones comes from costal waters and are not used to the toxins found in the reef stingers. Also anemone fishes are not reef swimmers and live most their life in fear of their lives if you mix them in with open reef swimmers.

Less judgement, more facts, more support and more actual love of the marine lifeforms we keep will get you a long way. Good luck and remember that wild caught fishes die like fruitflies because the psychological trauma stresses them out.
 
Last edited:
........Anemones are very tired right when you put them into a new tank. They do not have lots of energy and you have to make sure it does not turn over on its mouth and that it will not be pushed around but settle. I would not suggest mixing them with reef corals, anemones comes from costal waters and are not used to the toxins found in the reef stingers. Also anemone fishes are not reef swimmers and live most their life in fear of their lives if you mix them in with open reef swimmers.

Less judgement, more facts, more support and more actual love of the marine lifeforms we keep will get you a long way. Good luck and remember that wild caught fishes die like fruitflies because the psychological trauma stresses them out.

Not sure where you got your facts, but while some anemones are not reef dwellers (haddoni, LTA, malus) many (gigantea, BTA, H. magnifier, H. crisps, S. mertensii) do live on the reef in close proximity to corals and even intermingled within the coral branches. Obviously the anemone fish that live in these anemones are quite used to having other reef fish around them and routinely drive away butterfly fish that could otherwise eat the anemone. Anemone fish are so aggressive in fact that many will try to chase divers away from their home. They tend to rule the roost in a mixed reef tank.
 
Not sure where you got your facts,

Hey Phil - I am a hobby aquarist so established experts and their reports, is the only source available to me. Reading anecdotal reports online is obviously entertaining but unfortunately not much use as a source, which is why we all distrust eachother instead of listening to new information with interest.

but while some anemones are not reef dwellers (haddoni, LTA, malus) many (gigantea, BTA, H. magnifier, H. crisps, S. mertensii) do live on the reef in close proximity to corals and even intermingled within the coral branches.

This is about shallow-, middle- and deepwater setups, not a questionnaire about the ability of sealife to climb onto land. Some anemones are found right on top of the beach, the biggest types prefer somewhat better space obviously. It just means the bigger nems does not live on top of river outlets as often as the beach-climbing stingers.
You say that shallowwater dwellers also live near reefs, yes correct - there are many shallowwater corals. Just like the anemone-families of stingers, the shallowwater corals often need more nutrient-rich water & can handle muddied waters, which deepwater dwellers cannot. We can also just talk about the needs of rainbow bottom anemones, then anemones need cold water and no light at all but right now we were on about a somewhat normal saltwater setup.

*A myth* circulating online about anemones: is that they need "nothing but light" to stay alive. If the anemone is never fed and the water is kept at zero nutrients because it is really calibrated to suit deepsea dwellers, some anemones does not actually survive, even though supplied with photosynthetic activity. Anemones, can absorb both ammonia and nitrates, not something readily available in all setups.

Obviously the anemone fish that live in these anemones are quite used to having other reef fish around them and routinely drive away butterfly fish that could otherwise eat the anemone.

Anemonefishes are a damsel and quite old. They are based in nesting in family groups and comes in several distinct types. They are also very different from one another. They have the commonality of being anemonefishes, so your generalisation seems brought on by either a need to cherry-pick your arguments or general lack of knowledge about the fishes.

The more aggressive types are easily recognisable on them being more red, and much larger, than the commonly kept amphiprion percula and a. ocellaris. Although some people use the more aggressive behaviour to endorse mixing clownfish with reef swimmers, none of the fishes live in that close proximity to eachother in the wild and the fish will live it's whole life in *defend my territory* behaviour mode, which is somewhat limiting the natural behaviour of the creature.

- Amphiprion percula & a. ocellaris move with [left-to-right] motion and are orange, white and black, small and with medium-thick membrane tissue over their dorsal spines.

- Premnas biaculeatus, the anemonefishes that lives in the solitary form of entacmaea quadricolor, are left-to-right swimmers and have more membrane on their dorsalspikes to not hurt their rock-hiding anemone host, than anemonefishes that dwell with sandy based nems. The p. biaculeatus also have pointy spines on their cheeks. These spines will not be on the fishes that have more open water around them (they prefer to use their chin to anchor to surfaces but they do nip eachother on the same spot on the cheek as the spine-cheeked fishes).

- Amphiprion polymnus is medium sized and medium aggressive, their pectoral fins are yellow but can lack colour because of nutrition, their main families are coloured black and white while some outerzone variations also range from dark coffeebrownish, to brighter orangery colours. Their females have a droplet shape and velvet black eyes. Their males have more slender shapes and their eyes change colour ranging between dark golden brown and pale golden grey. These fishes have veil-like membranes and swim with [up-and-down] motion.

I do not intend to go through all the types of fishes generally united into the term *clownfishes* because it is like talking about *keeping monkeys*, one really have to get a little deeper into what kind of clownfish, if any, is right for individual aquarium setups.

None of these fishes survive in the wild without nesting in anemones.

Anemone fish are so aggressive in fact that many will try to chase divers away from their home. They tend to rule the roost in a mixed reef tank.

Yes correct, that is what they do, nest and chase away stuff from the nest. They spend their free time memorising swim patterns, work together as a pack and they may use their anemone as a weapon against other fishes, it all does give them some tools to stand their own against the freewater swimmers. Anemonefishes are trick swimmers that lives up to 7 times the life expectancy of fishes of similar size. They survive by teaching eachother how to use the ocean currents to their advantage, while living with parent- and sometimes even grandparent-generations in their nesting family. They spend -all their lives- standing in one spot and swimming around that one spot, and are usually the offspring of the fishes that nest in that anemone. They also recruit juvenile fishes from the surrounding families but the larvae detect traces in the water that makes them seek out populated nests automatically. For well established a. polymnus nests, the selfrequirement vs. strangerrecruitment in the wild was aprox 80% vs. 20%. ALL they do, every day, is circle around their anemone (in circles). They stand at the most optimal points for current and food, throughout the day hours. At morning and dusk, they circle around some more and the female makes sure her nest is supertight and the male & juveniles will come to check that they have good spots to sleep and they will play around and so forth. If they have sand-dwelling anemones the females may dig around to supply better sleeping grounds for her young, and she will show her swimming skills to young that is possible still in the process of recruitment into the family.

- Always introduce juvenile clowns in the spot you prefer them to stay in, because they will build up their brains' map of the surroundings, from that spot & outwards. They stand with their face into the current so they can see food coming towards them and love to balance in the current near powerheads & corners, ready to jump into the current at speed.

When the aquarists forces the day, of anemonefishes, to always be tightly packed with close neighbours, their territory becomes smaller and smaller, compared to its natural state. Sometimes, anemonefishes are known to rip through, anemones. This happens because of the way the Anemonefishes' species, mark territory.

- They will make a specific motion, let us call it *All My Power in a slap to Scare away strangers*.

They do that motion, to stir up zooplankton and to show the other fishes, or humans outside the glass, that the territory belongs to them and how big and strong they are. This is especially rampant with wild caught fishes, tank-raised fishes seem far less scared of potential death from all angles. The movement is instinctual, the aquarist cannot stop the fish from using that move to mark territory.

The aquarist can only make sure the anemonefishes have enough territory around their anemone, to mark their territory, somewhere else than inside the guts of the defenceless anemone.

People without anemones who do keep clownfishes, might see fishes that survive but online forums are also full of people who cannot understand what is killing their clowns, I have no idea why there should be any dismissive response to informing people more about the lifeforms but keeping aquaria is not about keeping landscapes that moves pleasingly all over. It is about living creatures & we all want to see them be in good homes. Anemonefishes are family fishes that learns through observation, their behaviour becomes twisted faster than types of fishes that are mostly instinctual and they are supposed to grow up with a parent-couple or even two generations of older fishes, right by their side to teach them everything.

I just try to give in depth inspiration for people to futher study their own passions. If you just want people to know how to put fishes into water and force them to live there, I suggest that you watch otherwise beautiful videos like this one:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cVOJcKfZZCU
 
Last edited:
*ps.

The white particles might be oversaturate minerals coming out of solution or white rotifers or some kind of spawning going on but otherwise I am not sure what it could be.

I use filtered ground water and have about 22ppm nitrates going into the change water mix before salting it but the tank water column is on zero ppm nitrates. No sump, no macro algae and no added filter media to target nitrates in the setup. Try shifting to something like aquaforest's probiotic reefsalt to keep 'em nitrates down.
 
Last edited:
OMG. I found out the problem. For the last two months I have been using a faulty refractometer. I bought a blenny bcs my other one decided to commit suicide by squeezing through my overflow. When I added it, I noticed the blemish in the water. you know, kind of like when you pour saltwater in fresh water. Well I rushed to get another hydrometer and sure enough. Saltwater content was at 1.015. Im surprised anything made it through the last three months. The deeper I get into this hobby, i realize that often the answer is something simple. Even though Im reading through volumes trying to figure it out. Anyway, now I have a bigger sump, a bigger pump to push water out of the basement, and a RODI system in my basement. lol All bcs of a faulty refractometer.
 
Wonderful, congratulations on both finding the solution while also getting gear that prevents possible future problems!

I think we all mostly make a ton of mistakes in the beginning until all the stuff we read to prepare is hammered into practical experience along the way - good luck & enjoy it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top