Help w/zoas melting

cediss

New member
I bought some red Martians a few months ago. They were growing great increasing 25% in about 2 months. Then a couple weeks ago I noticed a couple heads began to shrink. Now it looks like 35% reduction in mass. The heads shrink in size almost in the exact reverse of how you usually see them spread. The tank is predominantly SPS. All other corals including SPS and Xenia are doing well. A couple other zoa colonies seem to be stagnating and closed a lot as well.
Tank specs and parameters:
120 (48x24x24) with DIY LED Cree 50:50 CW to RB (30%:70%).
Old EuroReef skimmer I think model 80 or something like that.
Flow is 1000GPH return and 2 MP40's
SG 1.026
PH 8.32-8.45
Ca 420-460
kH averaging 8-9
Nitrate 0
PO4 <0.03
I have them in the same spot the entire time. I don't see any snails or other obvious parasitic pest. Any experience with this kind of scenario?
 
Don't know if it's my app or RC, but I can't see my post once I click on it. I'll have to login again from a PC. Hope I don't have to type that out again
 
Repost:
My red Martians had been growing (25%) over a couple months. Over past week they have shrunk by about 35%. They shrink in size and disappear much like a reverse of normal growth pattern. Anyone experience this before. I have a few palys and Xenia as well as SPS that are fine.
LED lights same since I got zoas
pH 8.30-8.40
SG 1.026
Temp 79
Ca 420-460
kH 8.0-9.0
Nitrate 0
PO4 < 0.03
 
Could be chemicals in the water.
Could be shock of temperature (too cold in a short period of time).
Hard to figure out if it's too much or not enough of something.
I would try to do a partial water change with a good salt, like Red Sea, first and see what happens.
Perhaps 10% per week, removing detritus, but not disturbing the system too much.
After 2 weeks you should be able to see any change.

Do you have lots of Xenia? Is it growing very fast?

That scenario is hard to figure out.
Melting can be related to so many things...
Some of the melting I've seen never could be figured out and the colony couldn't be saved.
Some others took long time and came back.

Please let us know when you figure that out.
Lets wait for more people to post.
Good luck!

Grandis.
 
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The same happened to me I ended up finding zoa eating nudis. I took out all the colonies I could an dipped in in a 2:1 water hydrogen peroxide solution then treated the rest of the tank with flat worm exit. So far everything is looking much better. Also one thing I have always wondered is if one has an sps dominated tank that is thriving could it be that the water is a little too clean for the zoas to really thrive? I'm sure there are many examples to disprove that statement but as general rule of thumb? I have always read on the interwebs that zoos and palys do better in less than pristine water. I myself also noticed considerable improvement by cutting my water changes from weekly 20% to bi-weekly 10% but I have no sps. Other factors could have been at play in my situation idk.

Now I'm am still an uber noob to this hobby so please only take anything I say just my own observation.
 
Well, in general, the cleaner the system, the better for the organisms. There are many meanings for "too clean" or "too dirty", so therefore there isn't any rule of thumb for that.
The water changes, when done right, shouldn't hurt the system.
It is for the best.
If they aren't done right they can make things worse. Excess of water changes is the most common mistake people do. 10% at a time is a good rule of thumb. Changing water too often and/or too fast is not good either. That we know...

Some times dipping can aggravate a situation too.
It is good to know what to dip the colony for and how, so it's ability to recover doesn't get compromised.
Looking for predators at night could help, yes. I'm assuming there are no predators and I'm jumping for the next possibility.

I would say the next step after trying water changes for 2 weeks would be to treat for bacterial infection. If colony looks ugly or worse after the first try with the water changes just dip it, 'cause it's probably bacteria.

I've had some species of zoanthids that were "melting away" and actually it was a need for food particles. Small zoanthids from "rich nutrient" waters are susceptible to that. So...

I've had some hard to find blue zoanthids species that couldn't survive more than 24hours after carefully collected, transported and acclimated to a very well mature and maintained system, melting so fast! So some species are more vulnerable to melting than others.
This is a well know problem with some of the blue species.

Some fishes like to graze on algae close to the polyps and they close for a long while. They can "melt" after so long without opening. That "melting" is to get weak and with skinny bases.

There are different types of "melting". Some times the zoas look like melting and they are actually closed, but their growth is stretched. So it looks like melting, but they are only closed. Some times they stop growing like that and begin to die too. Flesh looks healthy but they are weak.
Some other times they can come back to normal and do fine.
Some times they melt away and smells terrible. That's bacteria infection. Normally they just close and turn brown or have a white film on them.

One of the reasons I feed my zoas is because I've noticed that the have almost no issues with any type of melting when feed periodically. Their flesh looks stronger and their polyps' response to food keep them vivid, I guess.
Another good tip is the water movement. The better the flow, the less melting in the system. Too much flow for long time is not so good! Just the right amount where they can gently move and get their metabolism going with gas exchange and nutrients' absorption in check. Some few species do appreciate stronger flow then others.

Lots of other possibilities for melting too...

Any pictures?
People would love to see the pictures, I'm sure.
It helps them to help you.
When they see the pictures they remember the problem they had in the past and will be glad to help you. :thumbsup:

Hope others can post their experiences with melting, please.
I would like to learn more about that!

Once more, good luck!

Grandis.
 
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Thanks guys. While that was kinda all over the place I think those were general facts that ate true and I am aware of.
Interesting thing is this started shortly after I started feeding cyclopeez directly to the colony. It may be a coincidence but it goes hand in hand temporally speaking. I forgot to mention I have a bio-pellet reactor with maybe 200ml of pellets. I do weekly 5% water changes. The system is controlled by my Apex and temp stay within 1 degree for any 24-48 hour period. For those interested my Reeftronics link is here:http://www.reeftronics.net/chris-e/apex-history
 
That one aberrant temp reading came from the return being off. The heater and temp probe are on the overflow and the residual heat from the heater raised the water temp near the probe until the return was turned back on.

The colony had attached to the LR do I didn't want to pull it out to examine it or dip it. But my strongest suspicion is that something parasitic is doing this. It was growing so well prior to this.
There is no film that I can see. They just get smaller, open a little less fully until all that is left is a withering nub
 
Hopefully the quality is good enough here to see the difference! Thanks, Chris
 

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The second photo was taken the first week I had it. The second taken tonight. I cant find any from a couple weeks ago but it was at least 25% bigger than the picture from the first week and was looking great!
 
Interesting! This could be it. Im not sure yet, but I may see something that resembles this. It's hard to follow some of the logic in that link. It sounds so mysterious and some of the measures seem to have nothing to do with the pox.
How well known is this among zoa keepers? Is this just a myth or proven like red bugs? Is dipping the only way to successfully treat?
I'll have to examine closer but will need to do something sooner than later since at the rate this is going the polyps will be gone within 2 weeks!
 
If you look in the picture of the
Receding polyps in the back of the colony. There is a spot that looks suspiciously similar to the ones in the link. Lights are almost out so I'll have to look closer tomorrow. I looked for other culprits last night without any evidence but will check first thing tomorrow before lights come on
 
It's so maddening to deal with so many parasites in this hobby!! Ich, red bugs, flat worms, nudibranchs, now pox. It's amazing we ever have any success.
 
Sorry I couldn't answer earlier, cediss.
Yes, I've seen the picture and that's why I've sent you the link.
Zoa pox is well know. I do believe that dipping is the solution.
The treatment described on that page is know as the best by many people.
The success with parasites, bugs and other diseases in this hobby can be greatly avoided with prevention. But proper treatment is needed, of course.

Prevention = quarantine and/or dipping.

Grandis.
 
Thanks bro. I'll try to get that done today! I have Melafix. Has anyone been successful using that for pox?
 
Grandis, with your question on the Xenia, I have 3 stalk of the whittish silver pulsing. Why did you ask?
 
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