Help with QT and Ich (treatment)

[Spar]

yes, you can use those strainers the next time as long as you go through the same cleaning and air drying procedure (and dont let it get wet in the meantime).

i have had luck with the Hydor Theo heaters in my TTM tanks (10 gallon aquariums). they are relatively cheap online ($18 for a 50w). I wouldn't go cheaper than that unless you want to could a controller with it ($$$).

 

[Spork3245]

I was able to convert an (old, large, heavy, sturdy) speaker-stand/cabinent into a temp stand for the 40 gallon breeder. Just filled up the tank and hooked up the equipment, didn't add the salt yet... Considering I only have a 22 gallon brute mixing bucket it seemed like a better idea to just fill the tank up with tap water, add in the prime, start it circulating and then slowly add-in the salt and wait for it to dissolve... Or throw my mixing pump in there later on

Anyway, due to the savings of not needing to buy a stand, I'm looking back at the TTM and purchasing those jager heaters, I'm heading to the LFS in a bit to see what they have in the way of heaters and also purchase some cheap marine salt (not wasting my reef crystals on QT and TTM ). If they don't have any good, small, cheap, heaters I'll have to order off Amazon and start the TTM mid-next week, the ich seems to be in its "fake seemingly gone" stage where the larva are waiting to burst out of the sand in a week or so

 

[Spar]

Good plan and good choice on the heaters; they will last longer and keep you feeling safer. I should take your advice on the cheap salt too for QT, never considered that!

 

[Spork3245]

LFS would be $107 after tax for the heaters so it looks like I'll be waiting out an amazon order to save some money.
Salt is in the 40 gallon breeder, just waiting for it to mix and for the water to heat-up. Would it make sense to purchase some cured live rock and place it in there to get bacteria in the tank? I planned on purchasing some more for my DT anyway (like 15-20lbs), plus this'll give it approx 3 weeks to have a (hopefully quick) cycle once I start TTM with the buckets.
Also, what should I use for a cover for the 40 gallon breeder QT?

 

[HumbleFish]

Also, what should I use for a cover for the 40 gallon breeder QT?

I cut eggcrate to size to cover my QTs. You can always wrap wedding tulle around it (and use fishing line to attach it to the edges) to keep smaller fish from jumping out.

I'm confused... have you decided to treat with Cupramine in the 40 breeder now?

 

[Spork3245]

I cut eggcrate to size to cover my QTs. You can always wrap wedding tulle around it (and use fishing line to attach it to the edges) to keep smaller fish from jumping out.

I'm confused... have you decided to treat with Cupramine in the 40 breeder now?

I keep going back and forth on it to be honest ... It's honestly just hard justifying the $90 on 4 heaters that I will likely never use again
I set-up the breeder now as the fish will need to go in there after the TTM regardless since my 90 gallon DT will need to be fallow for 10-11 weeks. I was going to put some cured LR in there to start a, hopefully quick, cycle so I don't need to constantly be worried about ammonia.

Is there a reason that TTM is preferred over just treating cupramine? Is it less stressful on the fish? Is it easier overall? If I do treat with the cupramine, will everything in (and including) that 40 gallon breeder forever be compromised?

 

[HumbleFish]

I keep going back and forth on it to be honest
I set-up the breeder now as the fish will need to go in there after the TTM regardless since my 90 gallon DT will need to be fallow for 10-11 weeks. I was going to put some cured LR in there to start a, hopefully quick, cycle so I don't need to constantly be worried about ammonia.

The problem with putting LR in there is you'll have to take it out once you begin Cupramine treatment.

Is there a reason that TTM is preferred over just treating cupramine? Is it less stressful on the fish? Is it easier overall? If I do treat with the cupramine, will everything in (and including) that 40 gallon breeder forever be compromised?

Cupramine is copper which is poison, pure & simple. The reason it works is the fish are (usually) able to survive longer in it than the parasites. Some species that typically don't do well in copper include angels, lions, puffers, etc.

TT is chemical-less (so, in a way, a "natural" solution to the problem). Both treatments have their pros & cons, but both also require you to pay close attention to detail. For example, with Cupramine the copper level must not drop below 0.35 mg/L even for a second... and that must be maintained for one solid month. With TT, it's important to transfer as little water as possible with the fish, and you must sterilize the tank/all equipment thoroughly in-between transfers.

If you do treat with the Cupramine; the tank & equipment can be cleaned & re-used. The only things that could be "compromised" is if LR/sand was in the tank.

 

[Spork3245]

The problem with putting LR in there is you'll have to take it out once you begin Cupramine treatment.



Cupramine is copper which is poison, pure & simple. The reason it works is the fish are (usually) able to survive longer in it than the parasites. Some species that typically don't do well in copper include angels, lions, puffers, etc.

TT is chemical-less (so, in a way, a "natural" solution to the problem). Both treatments have their pros & cons, but both also require you to pay close attention to detail. For example, with Cupramine the copper level must not drop below 0.35 mg/L even for a second... and that must be maintained for one solid month. With TT, it's important to transfer as little water as possible with the fish, and you must sterilize the tank/all equipment thoroughly in-between transfers.

If you do treat with the Cupramine; the tank & equipment can be cleaned & re-used. The only things that could be "compromised" is if LR/sand was in the tank.

Ah, okay!
With the LR that would only be if I was *not* treating with cupramine, it would be for after the TTM, as again, the fish cannot go back into my DT for ~11 weeks and will be residing in the 40 breeder until such time passes. If I treat with cupramine I'm going to place a seeded filter sponge from my DT's sump into the breeder, since any ich larva/whatever that may be on it would die during treatment anyway.

Also, what exactly does everyone mean by egg crate? Is this what I should be buying? http://www.homedepot.com/b/N-5yc1v/Ntk-Extended/Ntt-egg+crate?browsestoreoption=1

 

[HumbleFish]

Ah, okay!
With the LR that would only be if I was *not* treating with cupramine, it would be for after the TTM, as again, the fish cannot go back into my DT for ~11 weeks and will be residing in the 40 breeder until such time passes. If I treat with cupramine I'm going to place a seeded filter sponge from my DT's sump into the breeder, since any ich larva/whatever that may be on it would die during treatment anyway.

Where would this LR be coming from? If from your (infected) DT, the rock could carry Ich over to the 40 breeder QT and render what you did via TTM useless.

Also, what exactly does everyone mean by egg crate? Is this what I should be buying? http://www.homedepot.com/b/N-5yc1v/Ntk-Extended/Ntt-egg+crate?browsestoreoption=1

Yes, that is it exactly. You can easily cut that stuff to size to fit any tank. With a table saw, jig saw, hacksaw, or even just a pair of wire snips.

 

[Spork3245]

LR would be bought from LFS, it's cured reef rock, not out of the ocean but cured in store with no real hitch hikers. I was planning on purchasing an additional 15-20lbs for my DT anyway, after the 11 weeks are up I'd move the LR into the DT along with the fish

 

[HumbleFish]

LR would be bought from LFS, it's cured reef rock, not out of the ocean but cured in store with no real hitch hikers. I was planning on purchasing an additional 15-20lbs for my DT anyway, after the 11 weeks are up I'd move the LR into the DT along with the fish

My only concern would be the rock had not come in contact with any diseased fish.

 

[Spork3245]

My only concern would be the rock had not come in contact with any diseased fish.

I think their filtration for the rock tubs is separated from their live stock tanks, but I'll double check prior to purchasing. If it is separated, do you think it'd be okay to purchase?

 

[HumbleFish]

I think their filtration for the rock tubs is separated from their live stock tanks, but I'll double check prior to purchasing. If it is separated, do you think it'd be okay to purchase?

Yup, so long as you can verify the rock has not come in contact with any fish over the past 72 days.

 

[Spork3245]

Okay great, I'll verify it when I head there today!
Also, does the lid need to be egg crate or can it be any-type of light-diffusing ceiling panel for fluorescent lighting? I ask because I actually have two unused (non egg-crate) panels I could use instead of buying the egg crates.

Lastly, probably a stupid question, but regarding TTM, I know you're supposed to transfer fish "first thing in the morning" every 3rd day for a total of 4-5 times, but what does that mean exactly? Should I wake up at 5am and switch them over? I'd start to prep the water in the new buckets the night before, turning on the heaters so the temp was good for the transfer that way I can wake-up, switch the fish over, go back to bed, then when I wake up disinfect the other buckets with vinegar, rinse with tap water and pat dry letting it fully air-dry before the next transfer - Is this correct or is the waking up at 5am thing not necessary?

 

[Spar]

All that matters is that you try not to let more than 72 hours pass, the morning part is only because the ich stage that jumps off the fish usually does so at night while the fish is sleeping, so more parasites are getting left behind, opposed to doing a transfer at night only to have parasites drop off right after the new water goes in. Less risky timing by doing it in the morning.

The parasites take several hours to form the cyst on a surface, and then stay in the cyst for a minimum of 72 hours, so you really have about 73-80 hours of play, regardless of what time of day you do the transfers at.

The problem I get into is that I do the transfers at 5:30am on weekdays, which is doable since we get up early for work. But when the 3rd-day falls on a weekend and I want to sleep in until 8 or 9am, it starts to fall into the unsafe 73-80 hour period... so, I set my alarm, get up and do the transfer at 5:30am and then go back to bed. Not the fun part.

Keep in mind also that you can do more frequent transfers, for example every 48 or 60 hours. You just have to do as many transfers as it takes until you have done a transfer on Day 12 or after. The only two factors that matter is (1) never wait more than 72 hours and (2) do consistent transfers until Day 12 or after.