How bad is this - URGENT!?

[Mr31415]

I am having a tank crash - like in BIG TIME. My QT tank is dying... I have three fish in there - a Purple Tang, Clownfish and Purple Firefish. Here is the params of this morning:

Temp: 26C
SG: 1.009 (hypo)
pH: 7.4 !!!
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 4+ mg/l
Nitrate: 100+mg/l

I added a pinch of sugar yesterday evening to try the experimental method for nitrate reduction. My tank is this morning a bit cloudy.

My question is - would a 100% water change (as an emergency measure) be more or less harmful to the fish than the current water parameters? The problem is I have been doing 30% water changes every third day for the past 2 weeks and it does not help. Like in it does not even begin to reduce the measurements.

Please help urgently!

 

[waterfaller1]

I would do the 100% change if the water is airated and aged. What are you using for filtration and was this a cycled QT?

 

[Amphiprion]

Yes, I agree. It doesn't always have to be cycled, depending upon the frequency of water changes. If you go for more than a day, you will have to have an established filter on the tank. What size QT do you have with that many fish in it?

 

[lux_06]

remembering ur other thread u have been dealing with the nitrite for a week or so yeh?.... so id first get the ph back up to 8.2.....

try and identify the nitrate factory? eg cannister.... bio balls..... dietrus buildup..... eliminatee that, then do massive water changes till levels are zero and from there on monitor them and keep em perfect.

u gotta get food and waste out of the system before it can turn into nitrite or trate....

 

[jeffbrig]

You have a couple of problems.....

The sugar addition is a bit risky for a QT. It creates a bacterial bloom that consumes Nitrate and Phosphate, but then that bacterial mass needs to be removed (that's what's clouding your water). Your skimming is minimal at 1.009, and without the ability to effectively skim the bacteria, they will die and release that organic material back into the water once their food source is consumed.

Your pH may have been affected by the sugar addition and the bacterial bloom. O2 levels typically fall dramatically, and you can easily kill a tank by overdosing a carbon source. Quarantine is NOT the time to experiment with novel nitrate reduction methods.

Use the tried and true method of water changes, and siphon any waste out of the tank daily. If your wet/dry has a foam prefilter, make sure you're cleaning it daily, or take it out altogether. You may also want to evalutate your feeding - overfeeding could seriously contribute to nitrate problems. I especially try to limit feedings after new additions to QT while allowing the biological filter ramp up.

Also be aware that hyposalinity reduces the alkalinity of the water by approx. 1/3, and that is a major factor in determining tank pH. I frequently buffer my QT with washing soda mixed in RO/DI as needed during hyposalinity. I try to keep the tank near 8.0 during hypo.

As for the water change, fish will not take kindly to an instantaneous change from 7.4 to 8.2 pH. If you choose to do the 100% change, move the fish to a bucket (with an airstone), and reacclimimate them slowly to the new tank water.

Also, remember that nitrate does not need to be 0 in a fish only QT tank. It's not ideal, but it's not going to kill anything overnight, either. Even 100ppm is not unheard of in a fish-only tank.

If you want some natural help removing/exporting nitrates, do a water change with water from your display tank (assuing it's up and running). That will introduce algae spores that will grow on the glass, taking up at least some of the nitrates.

 

[Mr31415]

Thanks for the info - especially jeffbrig - I will try all your suggestions. At least I am not alone in this - I feel so stupid and helpless :S.

 

[CW from the OC]

Lots of good advice in this thread, do a 100% water change ASAP before you lose everything.

Putting in the sugar was a major mistake IMO. QT's are not the place to experiment. They are inherantly unstable to begin with. If you have nitrate issues in the QT, just do a major water change, not 30% but 80% or more, with water you made up the day before and aerated over night. Make sure to siphon out all the waste on the bottom of the tank.

You need to resist the temptaton to experiment. Maintain the QT as has been repeatedly shown to work, with water changes, siphoning waste, etc.

 

[Mr31415]

I was not experimenting CW, I was desparate! There is a difference. I have done several 40% warter changes and it did nothing to the nitr[i,a]tes. I was worried about doing a large (80%+) water change and many people advised me against that in these forums.

 

[MCary]

Before you panic, nitrite and nitrate are not toxic to saltwater fish. It certainly can't be good for them, but it isn't going to kill them off. So I would relax and get some water change water prepared. So some regular water changes and wait for the filter to catch up.

You do have a filter? Simple sponge filter will work.

Mike

 

[Mr31415]

I am stressing because the values are WAY off the chart - I mean, a pH of 7.4, Nitrite of most probably 8mg/l+ and Nitrates of 200mg/l+ is just too much. I can see it in my Purple Tang. It refuses down right to eat - where it used to be an agressive feeder. It floats almost sideways in a little corner for the past two/three days - since the extremely high *trates.

 

[jeffbrig]

Mr31415, I've seen the EXACT symptoms you described on two separate occasions. I had separate instances with an achilles tang and a purple tang in hypo. A healthy fish stopped eating, I noticed some abdominal swelling, and the fish lost function of its swim bladder. They ended up floating to one side, almost sideways, unless they were actively swimming to hold themselves upright.

In both cases, the symptoms disappeared once I started raising the salinity. I strongly believe that impaired kidney function in hyposalinity is a cause, combined with a water quality problem as a trigger. The kidneys do not flush properly during hyposalinity. Any toxins screened out of the bloodstream remain in the kidney. I believe this is a factor in the swelling. In both cases, the swelling subsided and the fish regained control of the swim bladder once salinity was raised to 1.015.

Interestingly, I have only observed this problem with tangs, and not any of the other fish I have quarantined with hypo. I believe tangs are particularly susceptible to this problem.

I would recommend that you abort the hyposalinity treatment immediately, regardless of your timeline. Raise the salinity over the next 36-48 hours to 1.015 or 1.016 and see how the fish responds. Otherwise, you may very well lose the fish. Don't rusht he salinity increase, the fish need time to adjust. Increases in salinity need to be made more slowly than decreases.

Once the fish regains its health, you can either restart the hypo process, or consider a different treatment method.

 

[Mr31415]

Will do, jeffbrig. PS - The purple firefisn and clown seems fine - same as you observed. Only my tang.