I need to make a major decision.. Help!

[Mr. Brooks]

Hey guys,

I've been planning and putting together a 225 (72"x24"x30") centerbraced acrylic SPS tank for a while now. I finally filled it with water a couple days ago. Well I was bummed to find out that the front panel is not thick enough, causing it to bow out a bit. I bought the tank used but it had never been filled with water, had no holes drilled.

<a href="http://s60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/thechad21_2006/?action=view&current=FishTankBuild100.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/thechad21_2006/FishTankBuild100.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


So at this point I have two options:

Option 1:

Leave everything the way it is. Live with the bow and deal with the inevitable scratches on an acrylic tank.

The bow doesn't look that bad when there's not a level up to it, but I have a feeling it'll get worse over time.



Option 2:

Buy a used (but in good condition) eurobraced (no center brace) Lee Mar polished glass 180. The 180 would be 6" shorter (72"x24"x24"). Which would be good as far as being able to light the tank more efficiently, less water for the light to travel through. I might even be able to get by with three 250 watt metal halides instead of of three 400's.

Although I'd be losing 45 gallons of volume (stability), I'm actually putting less of a work load on my skimmer. In theory I'd be able to keep the water slightly cleaner.

The negatives are that there'll be less room for corals to grow out in and less room for fish to swim around. Most importantly though, It may make the tank look disproprtional. The stand is 36" and the canopy is 22". The tank will appear to be shorter than the canopy by 2" (there's a 2" overhang on top and bottom). I'll also have to square the rounded edges on the inside of the stand and canopy to get the tank to fit (acrylic tank has rounded edges). I'll be able to keep my closed loop, but I won't be able to gravity feed my skimmer. The overflow holes aren't set up to do this. It'd be a return to simplicity. I'd just run a pump instead.

So what do you guys think? What would you do if you were me? it won't cost me THAT much more to swap it out, all things considered. Click on my red house to see the journey up to this point. I appreciate your opinions one way or the other.

Also, I've realized it's a bad idea to run your return pump behind your tank, even when you leave a full 12" to get back there. If I swap it out I'll be able to redesign my return plumbing to make it esier to get to.


Here's a pic of what it looks like now, try to imagine what it would look like if the tank was 6" shorter.

<a href="http://s60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/thechad21_2006/?action=view&current=FishTankBuild065.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/thechad21_2006/FishTankBuild065.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[Mr. Brooks]

Anyone?

 

[wmilas]

Acrylic that is under stress will undergo a series of changes. This first is that it will start to craze. The spider-webbing will get worse over time until is starts to refract light. It will look like a crazy broken rainbow. At this point you need to start to worry about structural integrity being a problem.

It may never make it to that stage. The deflection you show in the picture looks serious, but I've seen worse. A tank of that size should be built with 1" acrylic sides, front and back, 3/4" top and bottom to have minimum deflection. Its not the gallonage, but the fact that its 30" tall.

So in the end its up to you. If it was me (I personally like acrylic) and I had already paid for the tank, I'd use it. If it starts to craze after a few years I'd look into getting a new tank. Acrylic is not like glass. It wont fail catastrophically. You'll know LONG before if its going to fail, and I doubt that tank would even fail, although the crazing would look like crap if it does craze.

 

[reef_only]

I guess you fill the tank with full water w/o live rock. With live rock in, the total volume of water in tank will reduce therefore the pressure of water on tank will be less (most of rock weight is on the bottom not the sides). In short the more live rock the less water the less it bows.

 

[13threefmaniac]

Personally, i would change it. Why take the risk, especially when the finished product will hold thousands of dollars worth of livestock and equipment. It would suck for everything to mature in that tank and just as you are able to sit back and enjoy it you find the need to change it out.

Pity this had to happen. It was a very nice tank and i was following your progress intently. Do keep us updated.

 

[savethereef]

is that 30inches tall or wide?

So you gona sell this one?

 

[Mr. Brooks]

It's 30" tall. If I swap it out for the glass tank, then yes I'd sell it.

 

[Tangwich]

Hey Chad, I'm no psychologist (although I probably could be..lol) but just the fact that you're asking this question leads me to believe that it is a major concern of yours and it's is in fact bothering you. That concern will most likely not go away any time soon. Having said that, you have put lots of work into this project as well as lots of earned income and therefore all I can suggest is that you do what you know you will be happy with 6 months or even 6 years down the road (assuming you keep the tank that long). Better to do it once now and get what you want, then have it bother you until you change it out a year from now. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[Mr. Brooks]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13605941#post13605941 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tangwich
Hey Chad, I'm no psychologist (although I probably could be..lol) but just the fact that you're asking this question leads me to believe that it is a major concern of yours and it's is in fact bothering you. That concern will most likely not go away any time soon. Having said that, you have put lots of work into this project as well as lots of earned income and therefore all I can suggest is that you do what you know you will be happy with 6 months or even 6 years down the road (assuming you keep the tank that long). Better to do it once now and get what you want, then have it bother you until you change it out a year from now. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Thanks man! That's some very sound advice. There's too many variables at this point for me to make a clear decision. Both have their pros and cons. A lot of it has to do with the never ending acrylic vs. glass debate. I have to figure out what's most important. That's not always easy to do in this hobby lol.

As far as looks go, do you guys think the canopy will look awkward on a shorter tank? Putting everything together is fun for me so I don't mind rebuilding it. And I don't mind spending a little extra to get it right. What I do mind though is an ugly tank. Potentially my acrylic tank could end up getting very ugly in the long run, especially if the bow gets worse causing it to "craze". But it might also look ugly having a crystal clear tank with a proportionately giant canopy on top.

If the glass tank I'm considering was available two years ago, and if I knew then what I know now. I would've gone with the 180 glass over the 225 acrylic. If I'd bought the 180 though I wouldn't have made the canopy so tall.

BTW the tall canopy does serve a purpose. My office gets very hot on weekends, especially over the summer. I want to keep the halides up high to reduce heat. I'll be using lumenbright reflectors.

 

[LauraCline]

If the deflection is noticeable when you look down the length of the tank such as when you enter the door, I would definately replace it because it's going to bother you every time you look at it and who wants to replace a mature tank. Inevitably it will need replacement just as everything is the way you want it. That being said, I think a standard 180 would look disproportional. May I suggest a 3rd option which is a custom 225 starfire? I will admit that I am biased against acrylic because I've never seen one without noticeable scratches and they always get hazy over time.

 

[Mr. Brooks]

I thought about that, but I've already spent so much money. A brand new starphire tank would just be way too expensive. With the 180 I'd be saving a serious amount of money over brand new, while still getting a very high quality, very clear, glass tank. Considering the cost of a brand new tank, I think I'd be better off leaving it the way it is.

I'm going to put the canopy on the acrylic 180 I have in my warehouse and take a pic so you guys can see for yourself how it'll look.

 

[Mr. Brooks]

I posted this on my build thread... A little more info then you may want or need but it was easier to just copy and paste =)

I think I owe you guys an update.

I've decided to live with the bow. I'm going to keep the 225 and hope it doesn't get worse. Several reasons for this decision. The main reason being the fact that the canopy would look WAY too big on a 180. Several RC members helped me come to this conclusion. I thought about buying a new starphire glass tank with the same dimensions but quickly ditched the idea when I realized how much it would cost. I've spent a lot of time, money and energy getting this tank set up. It would be a shame to take it down so soon.

In all reality, the bow isn't that bad. You don't really notice it unless you look closely. I will say this though, I'm already over acrylic.

I was able to swap out the Barracuda return pump for a Super Dart. At first I was unable to loosen the unions, I just couldn't get a grip. I was afraid I was going to have to drain the tank and relocate the return pump. There's 12" between the tank and the wall. I could get back there but I couldn't get any leverage on the unions. I put some rubber gloves on which gave me the grip I needed. After that it was a snap.

Luckily I plumbed the sump with a 2" bulkhead and a 2" single union ball valve. I originally planned on running 1 1/2" to match the input size of the Barracuda. I was very glad that I had the forethought to use 2". I did this so I could use one of my Darts as a back up in case the Barracuda broke down. I'm EXTREMELY happy with this move. There's still PLENTY of flow and the tank is almost silent now.

The Barracuda was way over powered as a return pump. Even with the lower flow impeller, it was just way more than I needed. Having extra flow wasn't really the problem though. It was noise. It wasn't necessarily loud so to speak, it was the pitch that really bugged me. It had a higher tone than the Darts, which run at a barely noticeable low hum. I gave it a day to work itself in, it got a little quieter but not enough. I think it would've been fine if it'd been inside my stand. But it was out in the open behind my tank. merely 10' from my desk.

I also had a noise problem with my gravity fed Deltec. The output pipe was making a gurgling noise. I asked for advice on the Deltec forum. Found out I was running too much flow through the skimmer. Turned it down, problem solved.

My overflow was making a lot of noise as well. I found out I didn't need the CJ standpipe. The submerged 1 1/2" standpipe can handle 100% of the flow. I swapped the CJ standpipe with a longer 2" stand pipe. This way I can fine tune the level in the overflow so the water just trickles down. The 2" pipe is set just under the overflow teeth, and just above the water line in the overflow. The 2" standpipe will be used as an emergency back up in case the 1 1/2" standpipe gets clogged, which is bound to happen.

I'm happy to report that the 225 is running quietly and efficiently. Next step, add rock.



So now I'm left looking on to my next project, the 180. You may remember that the 180 is acrylic. You may also recall that I recently stated that I'm over acrylic. Well it just so happens that I know of a really nice euro braced glass tank for sale lol.

I've decided to buy the glass 180. It's a polished glass, eurobraced Lee Mar. I'm going to try to sell the acrylic 180. I'll be spending a bit more but I feel it's very much worth it.

After going through my 225 build, I've decided to keep it simple on this one. I'm not going to have a canopy on this tank. I plan on running a tank mounted, all in one light fixture. Not sure if I'm going to run 250 watt halides or T5's. I've got plenty of time to research and decide.

I'm not going to run a closed loop. Instead I plan to go with the inexpensve Koralias at first, then Vortechs and/or Tunzes when I'm ready to upgrade.

I'm not going to gravity feed the G4 skimmer. I've found that the complicated way in which I set up my gravity fed Deltec was entirely necessary. I don't want to mess with it again. You really need to be able to fine tune everything to get it just right. I'll probably mesh mod the G4 eventually.

I'm going to ditch the sea swirls and run the returns through the overflow instead. The sea swirls are too big and ugly to have sitting on top of a tank with no canopy to hide them.

The original plan was to do fish only. I'm going to set it up in way that will allow me to upgrade to an SPS reef if I ever so choose. The plan at this point is to make it a softy reef.

So I'll have an SPS reef in my office, and a softy reef in reception.

Good to go.

 

[savethereef]

So how much are you gona sell the 180g for?

 

[Mr. Brooks]

I think I paid $500, I'd ask what I paid for it. It's in better shape now than it was when I bought it.