Ich in 180 display, now what?

[mattgumaer]

Ok, the power went out in my tank a few days ago and, lo and behold, I have ich. A few spots on a few fish. Everybody is still eating and generally happy. It is unclear whether I've had a low level of ich in the tank for quite some time and the stress of the outage brought it on or whether I wasn't careful enough with my new fish in a separate small quarantine tank which have/had ich and I cross-contaminated my display despite the quarantine setup. Either way, I now have ich in a 180 gallon mixed reef that is reasonably heavily stocked.

Residents are: 1) copperband; 2) mandarin; 3) 3 lyretail anthias; 4) 3 Barlett's anthias; 5) 2 percula clowns; 6) powder blue tang (showing minor signs); 7) kole tang (showing minor signs); 8) yellow tang; 9) foxface (showing minor signs); 10) an orangeback wrasse; and 11) a shrimp/goby pair I rarely see- I suppose the goby could be gone but I only every see it once every couple months deep in the rockwork so, who knows.......

So, I think my choices are: 1) try to keep the fish happy and hope they can fend it off on their own; or 2) tear the tank apart to catch all fish and try to treat separately (copper?) in a large hospital (75 gallons?) tank.

My concerns with number 1 (leave fish in) are the ich may get out of control and I may end up doing number 2 anyway but with the fish in tough shape and also that I may have to live with a tank with ich indefinitely, even if the ich stays 'under control'. I have some hope based on anecdotal reports/evidence that the ich may actually die off long term with no new additions (a year or two?)

My concerns with number 2 (take fish out and treat in 75 with Cupramine) are killing a bunch of coral getting the fish out and crashing the system generally, that fish like mandarin and copperband might not survive quarantine due to lack of what they normally eat in my reef tank and/or treatment sensitivity, and, even at 75 gallons, the quarantine will be too small to house all fish without crowding, aggression, killing with ammonia spike, etc.

Is there an option #3? Is something like tank transfer even conceivable with this number/variety of fish?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. It sucks to contemplate this while all fish look happy/healthy but, I'm afraid this could all change very quickly. Thanks.

Matt

 

[julie180]

Bummer, I just went through this with my 220. I have a 10" rabbit, copperbanded, flame angel, kole tang, osc clown, 6 line wrasse, starry blenny and a falco hawk.

I had one 100 gallon stock tank so I got a second and did TTM with 40 gallons of water. The ammonia was a problem so I dosed Prime daily. Luckily for me, I still have my old 180 that I had upgraded from so my fish are currently in there waiting out the 72 days. I was able to do a mini cycle on the 180 while doing TTM so ammonia has not been an issue. I used a box of ceramic rings, a few pieces of dry rock and several foam filter pads I had around and 2 bottles of IO Bio-Spira.

My tank was infected by the blenny that I did no QT. I chose to deal with the problem right away for the reason you mentioned above. I did not want to see things go south and risk losing fish I have had for 7 years. Its a real pain but I feel good about my decision. I lost the clown and wrasse because I had to large of a pump in the stock tank

Not really sure about your mandy and CBB if they are not eating frozen food. Thats going to be a tough call.

Best of luck!

 

[Deinonych]

Agree it's a tough call. If you want to be sure the parasite is eradicated, removal of all fish for treatment with a fallow period of 72 days is the only guaranteed option. If you can transfer your inverts to a dedicated QT, you could try hyposalinity on the DT. It's more difficult to pull off, as you need to keep the SG at 1.009 for 30 days after the last spot disappears. With a 180, it's somewhat easier due to the large water volume.

I'm not a fan of "managing ich," but some folks are able to pull it off with good diet, good water quality, and a low-stress environment.

 

[jbvdhp]

I just graduated my fish back into their DT. I took em all out when ich was present, and I am glad I did because they're all happier and healthier now.

I think we all know the right thing to do, and although it sucks, it needs to be done. I am currently going thru ttm for my THIRD batch of fish, which I recently bought. Ttm is so easy in treating fish for ich.

I hope with whatever route you choose, that the outcome makes you happy. If it were me, I'd pull em all out.

 

[mattgumaer]

I think I probably will pull them. It would be an easier decision if I wouldn't likely lose at least the mandy in the process. I don't see how I'm going to sustain it out of the display for so long. The CBB will eat clams so I can feed it. In the near term, it seems like pulling the fish is more lethal than leaving them (although this equation could change quickly). Another complication is a vacation coming up at the end of the month that will make it difficult to manage another tank (or tanks) in my absence.

If things don't go south too quickly, I might try to wait to pull them, giving me time to set up properly for such a big move and so I will be home for the block of time necessary to treat and monitor properly.

Thanks for the input and support. The idea of using a couple of large tanks or other big containers for a large TTM intrigues me.

Matt

 

[julie180]

The stock tanks were great, I think the fish adjusted well because of the darkness. I went to wally world and got a couple of plastic desk top type containers with holes that ended up floating around so the fish had a place to hid.

It was no so good for being able to see what was going on. But I was able to judge by their behavior and know everything was good.

 

[mattgumaer]

interesting way to give them some cover.

 

[mattgumaer]

Despite the risk of taking some grief, I thought it would be worth providing an update. I discovered what I'm still reasonably convinced was ich in my tank at the end of February. Symptoms appear to have been triggered by an overnight power outage with loss of circulation and a temp drop. My tangs were mostly effected, particularly my Powder Blue. With a planned vacation coming up, combined with the dread of tearing the tank apart to catch all fish and concern that quarantine and treatment might well kill certain fish (my mandarin and my CBB in particular), I decided to wait/watch for a while. The 'ich' went away and then came back a couple of weeks later as expected. However, since it subsided the second time, it has not come back (at least visibly). I did lose a male Lyretail due to a combination of stress/ich?/aggression but all other fish seem fine. I would have pulled the male lyretail but no luck trying to catch him. I don't really think a disease killed him. Rather, I think, once he was not at full strength, he got picked on by the other anthias and couldn't bounce back (reminds me of my African Cichlid days- it's great to be the dominant fish until the day you're not any more).

I can't say definitively what I had was ich, although it sure looked like it. I can't say my tank is 'cured' although there have been no visible signs of any problems with my fish in some time, probably a little better than a month. I can't say the ich won't return with a vengeance. What I think I can say is that, had I torn my tank apart, pulled all fish and treated them, I likely would have lost more fish (and likely a decent amount of coral) in the process.

Perhaps it wasn't ich? Perhaps it was a mild strain? Perhaps it's not done with me yet and is still lurking waiting for another stress event to trigger a more severe outbreak? For now at least, I'm happy I didn't pull the tank apart to catch and treat all fish because I think I would have caused more harm than I would have prevented.

I realize there are strong opinions on the subject and that one anecdotal experience may not move the debate much but, I thought it was worth sharing my experience for those that face the decision whether to pull their tank apart to catch all their fish in a tank with ich.

Once you have ich in big tank with a lot of fish and coral, there probably isn't a good choice. Leaving the fish in the tank could kill a of bunch of fish. Tearing the tank apart, pulling all the fish and treating them could kill a bunch of fish (and coral). I don't have enough experience to offer a solid opinion regarding which, on average, is likely to do more harm. However, I don't think either choice is unreasonable. It could be that the old adage that nothing good happens fast in this hobby applies to tearing your tank apart, pulling and treating all fish at the first sign of disease.

Matt

Footnote- If I see ich again, I'll update again so that others my learn from my mistake if my decision ends up biting me in the $#@%.