Ich on Tang - Help

[kdrof]

Hey all, i have been reading about this and have quarantined and still somehow managed to get ich. I had posted that my Achilles had injured his eye.. i believe my Coral Banded shrimp got him.. the achilles would often go up to it and confuse it for a cleaner... anyways.. his eye was swollen and cloudy. Both eyes always had a little cloudiness to them depending on how the light hit them.. but the injured eye was worse.

I put some epsom salt in and ran a little melafix. It seemed to help the swelling and some of the cloudiness. He has been eating and the most active in the tank.

I did some water changes to get the melafix out of the tank and start running my skimmer like normal. my levels are all 0 except maybe 5 at the most for nitrates but i dont even think that. My achilles is eating well and is always eating like he is starving.. i feed 3 times a day.. cant be starving.

I have seen two dots on his fin and everyone that has seen him has always said they didnt think it was ich. It has not spread or gotten bigger (On his pectoral fin.)

So last night i noticed on his opposite side one small white dot.. i suspected ich but didnt know if maybe a piece of substrate somehow was one him.. wait till today..

I come home and he has 2 more dots on the same side... My guess would be ich.

I know people are going to say QT right away and what not... my question is.. arent i basically screwed? Becuase if this is off my achilles the "pest" is still in my tank even in dormant stages where it will multiply in rock or substrate and then attack again and again... I also see a white dot on my Naso as well. My QT is a 29 and would hate to have more than one in there. I have 5 chromis and 2 percs and a pink spotted goby. Everyone is fine and eats like pigs. I feed flakes daily and every other day add some mysis, brine and then some nori usually daily. I also soak food in vitachem, garlic extreme, zoecon, and selcon. I also dose vitachem and zoecon from time to time..

I think moving the achilles is going to create more stress? does anyone agree? Should i just leave him and see if it worsens tomorrow and the next day? Hes eating like crazy and easily the most active. His eye had seemed to progress if it had any sort of bacterial infection. I have read that people wait it out. Some people throw in QT with copper. Some throw in tank with formalin dips. Some do hyposalinity. Should i see if he gets any better in the upcoming days?

His eye seems to be progressing and not getting worse. I have removed the so called "problem child" (coral banded). I traded it in towards another cleaner shrimp. I had seen multiple times the coral banded trying to poke the achilles with his claws.. usually didnt hit him but suspect when his eye was swollen and even more cloudy that is what got him..

I would like to know what honestly to do. I fear i will get many opinions and will probably make more confused... Thanks for the help in advance. Kevin

 

[sandwi54]

i think you've touched the common situation where finding out the least of all evils is. it's a tough call to make without seeing the fish and knowing its typical behavior.

regarding the ich, i would probably wait a little longer. sometimes fish gets sand on its body. my naso tang constantly picks up a bunch of sand into its mouth and spits it out through its gills (kindda like what gobies do). and she always gets sand on her body that look like ich. at first i freaked out but the spots keep shifting and i realized it's just sand.

however, i would start preparing QT items if it ends up being ich. a 29 gallon is too small for all the fish you have, not just in terms of water quality control but also the amount of dissolved oxygen it can hold. i would go on craigslist and buy a used 55 gallon for the tangs and keep the rest of the fish in the 29. Buy an extra big filter for the 55 and put the sponge in the DT now to seed the bacteria.

If it turns out to be ich, i would use cupramine at 0.35ppm for 3 weeks. search my previous posts for the detailed instructions i've written on other ich posts in the past few days. cupramine is an easier method than hyposalinity and is relatively safe too. do not combine other meds however.

ich is not hard to battle if the strict protcols of quarantining and treatment are followed, so don't worry. just make sure you follow the protocols 100%.

 

[kdrof]

Ok i have read that ich can cause like slits in a fin? Because i see a little slit on the pectoral fin as well that i havent seen. Unless that was from the Coral banded as well... He is fine with all other fish. Can sand really stick on their bodies like that? Lets cross our fingers Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it very much.

 

[kdrof]

Also, can cleaner shrimp do anything about ich? Just curious

 

[kripas]

Cleaner shrimp wont remove the ich. Ich is inside the body of your fish, the white spot you see is the outer part of ich.

 

[MrTuskfish]

You mentioned that the fish was quarantined and still got ich. Was he in QT as a new fish? Did the ich show up in the QT or your DT? Catching and curing parasites in the QT is a main reason to use a QT with new fish. If he spent several weeks in QT before being moved and now has ich; there was already ich in the DT.All this isn't going to cure him, but maybe we can help with future ich control so you don't have to go through this again.

 

[sandwi54]

Also, can cleaner shrimp do anything about ich? Just curious

Only three methods are scientifically proven to eradicate ich 100% of the time. Hyposalinity, copper, and tank transfer. Please read this sticky if you haven't.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1992196

At this stage I probably wouldn't go nuts about it. Wait another week or two to see if the spots multiply. It would be very obvious when that happens - the fish would be covered with ich and that's when you know it for sure. Also pay attention to the breath rate. Ich tends to attack gills first since that's where the most water flow occurs, and gill tissues are soft and can be penerated easier. If the breath rate increases (provided that your good water quality remains), then it will be highly possible that it has ich (or some other parasites).

I now pretend that every fish I buy has parasites because it's just not worth it to take the risk and introduce unwanted pests into my DT. I treat prophylactically in the QT with cupramine and prazipro on every single fish. Putting new fish through a semi-stressful treatment program is better than having a whole tank wipe-out.

 

[MrTuskfish]

[/QUOTE]I now pretend that every fish I buy has parasites because it's just not worth it to take the risk and introduce unwanted pests into my DT. I treat prophylactically in the QT with cupramine and prazipro on every single fish. Putting new fish through a semi-stressful treatment program is better than having a whole tank wipe-out.[/QUOTE]
You bet! I've been doing this for 15+ years and haven't seen a protozoan parasite in any of my DTs in that time. I've even gotten to the point where I really don't consider an appropriate level of copper all that stressful; especially since the fish is usually eating well without competition or bullying. Sort of a half-way house between the reef and my tank. I keep lots of fish, and everyone loses a fish on occasion; when that happens, I sure want it to be in my QT and not a DT. Even if a fish is a little uncomfortable with the copper, I think its worth it in the long run. For me and the fish.

 

[sandwi54]

You bet! I've been doing this for 15+ years and haven't seen a protozoan parasite in any of my DTs in that time. I've even gotten to the point where I really don't consider an appropriate level of copper all that stressful; especially since the fish is usually eating well without competition or bullying. Sort of a half-way house between the reef and my tank. I keep lots of fish, and everyone loses a fish on occasion; when that happens, I sure want it to be in my QT and not a DT. Even if a fish is a little uncomfortable with the copper, I think its worth it in the long run. For me and the fish.

No kidding and well said! I think a sticky should be written on what you just said!

 

[kdrof]

Ive read the white part is the eggs... so it removing eggs would potentially lesson the amount in the tank. Im gonna do hypo in my tank and see what happens. White spots are off fish now but i am guessing that is just one of the stages.

 

[sandwi54]

Ive read the white part is the eggs... so it removing eggs would potentially lesson the amount in the tank. Im gonna do hypo in my tank and see what happens. White spots are off fish now but i am guessing that is just one of the stages.

The white spots on the fish are trophonts, not eggs. they are not removeable. well, i guess they can but at the same time you'd cause abrasions to the skin which makes it possible for bacterial infections.

are you doing hypo in a QT or DT?

 

[kripas]

Ich loves light, i suggest quaratine it or turn off your light for couple of days and raise your water temp slowly to speed up the cycle of ich

 

[Gill_bucket]

Ich loves light, i suggest quaratine it or turn off your light for couple of days and raise your water temp slowly to speed up the cycle of ich

Ick is not effected by temp. Ich however is effected by temp but unless your tank is freshwater you have ick, not ich.

 

[sandwi54]

Ick is not effected by temp. Ich however is effected by temp but unless your tank is freshwater you have ick, not ich.

The name "ich" is short for Ichthyophthirius Multifiliis, the parasite responsible for freshwater ich. For saltwater, the similar parasite is Cryptocaryon Irritans. However, the saltwater industry has adopted the name of ich from freshwater since the symptoms are so similar. To avoid confusion, we should differentiate them by "freshwater ich" and "marine ich." Also, the proper name is "ich" and not "ick."

There are many myths regarding marine ich, most of which are carried over from freshwater ich. Raising the temperature above 86 degrees has been shown to kill freshwater ich (Ichthyophthirius Multifiliis), but not marine ich (Cryptocaryon Irritans). Raising the temperature in a saltwater would speed up both freshwater and marine ich's life cycles.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Ich loves light, i suggest quaratine it or turn off your light for couple of days and raise your water temp slowly to speed up the cycle of ich

How will this do anything to cure an ich infestation? I've never read anything about ich and light, do you have a source?

 

[jjk_reef00]

Ich loves light, i suggest quaratine it or turn off your light for couple of days and raise your water temp slowly to speed up the cycle of ich

This is completely false.
Please read this article:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php
"Mature trophonts leave the host and tomites exit the theront/cyst in the dark"
I'm not sure if I agree with this or not but turning the lights off will not help anything.