Ich strategy review and advice

[Fin Mike]

I have ich in my 120 display tank and in my 40 observation tank. I have 7 fish in my 120. One of those is a huge hippo I've had for 6+ years and a large copperband of over 3+ years. I can't treat this tank with copper because it is a reef, and TTM won't work because I have no uninfected tank big enough to put them back into.

In my 40 observation tank I have three fish that have been in there for over three weeks now. They are the source of the ich in my display tank. I must have used bad lab technique and transferred it in there somehow. LESSON LEARNED!

Anyway, now I have to deal with it. So I wanted to run my strategy by you guys and get affirmation and advice.

I have decided to go hypo for the display tank, and simultaneously run the 40 fallow for the 72 day period.

Here is how I plan to do it. I will remove the inverts in the display to the 40. I will also remove as much rock as I can and stick it in the 40 so not to lose all the critters that are on it (i assume hypo will be problematic for them). I will then transfer the fish from the 40 to the 120.

The three fish in the forty are a small foxface, pyramid butterfly, and a green chromis. They have ich, but other than that, they seem healthy. They have been through a round of prazi, but that's it. They are all eating well, and the ich looks like it is not overpowering them. They are not flashing or scratching. The pyramid had lymphocystis too, but it seems like that has mostly cleared up.

I was wondering if transferring the fish from the 40 to the 120 at this stage was a good idea? How will hypo affect my refugium and my sandbed?

Only the tang in the display tank shows signs of ich, so the other fish haven't been affected too badly. In the 40 though, the pyramid has had signs of ich for at leas two weeks. I have to take action while I can.

So, with all that being said, what do you all think. This seems to me to be the best strategy.

 

[Bmwm235i]

I have ich in my 120 display tank and in my 40 observation tank. I have 7 fish in my 120. One of those is a huge hippo I've had for 6+ years and a large copperband of over 3+ years. I can't treat this tank with copper because it is a reef, and TTM won't work because I have no uninfected tank big enough to put them back into.

In my 40 observation tank I have three fish that have been in there for over three weeks now. They are the source of the ich in my display tank. I must have used bad lab technique and transferred it in there somehow. LESSON LEARNED!

Anyway, now I have to deal with it. So I wanted to run my strategy by you guys and get affirmation and advice.

I have decided to go hypo for the display tank, and simultaneously run the 40 fallow for the 72 day period.

Here is how I plan to do it. I will remove the inverts in the display to the 40. I will also remove as much rock as I can and stick it in the 40 so not to lose all the critters that are on it (i assume hypo will be problematic for them). I will then transfer the fish from the 40 to the 120.

The three fish in the forty are a small foxface, pyramid butterfly, and a green chromis. They have ich, but other than that, they seem healthy. They have been through a round of prazi, but that's it. They are all eating well, and the ich looks like it is not overpowering them. They are not flashing or scratching. The pyramid had lymphocystis too, but it seems like that has mostly cleared up.

I was wondering if transferring the fish from the 40 to the 120 at this stage was a good idea? How will hypo affect my refugium and my sandbed?

Only the tang in the display tank shows signs of ich, so the other fish haven't been affected too badly. In the 40 though, the pyramid has had signs of ich for at leas two weeks. I have to take action while I can.

So, with all that being said, what do you all think. This seems to me to be the best strategy.

I am going through a ich out break as well. I have been using Dr. G medicated food for 5 days now and seeing huge improvements. I don't want to jinx it, the fish love it even my non affected fish are eating it. Not a solution to your post but another additive that could help. I will be posting a before and after picture once the 3 weeks of treatment is over, I didn't think my guy was going to make it. Breakout happend so fast and aggressive. Good luck.

 

[imjedi76]

I am going through a ich out break as well. I have been using Dr. G medicated food for 5 days now and seeing huge improvements. I don't want to jinx it, the fish love it even my non affected fish are eating it. Not a solution to your post but another additive that could help. I will be posting a before and after picture once the 3 weeks of treatment is over, I didn't think my guy was going to make it. Breakout happend so fast and aggressive. Good luck.

Which Dr. G food are you using?

 

[Bmwm235i]

Which Dr. G food are you using?

For Ich you want the anti-parasitic caviar. I plan on using it for when I add new fish in the future. I also will be using SELCO booster moving forward on their frozen and live foods.

 

[imjedi76]

For Ich you want the anti-parasitic caviar. I plan on using it for when I add new fish in the future. I also will be using SELCO booster moving forward on their frozen and live foods.

where did you order it from?

 

[Bmwm235i]

where did you order it from?

My lfs carries it... Aquariumcarecenter not sure of he ships however.

 

[Mishri]

looks like they have it here too:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=28131

interesting.. chloroquine laced food that fish will actually eat..

 

[Fin Mike]

Snorvich, Could you give me your .02? I have to take action.

 

[Fin Mike]

I've done some more research and it looks as if hypo will destroy all the micro fauna in my display....that's not going to happen. So hypo in display is out. I have the foxface and chromis from the 40 observation tank in a 5 gal bucket right now. They are on day 1 of TTM. The 40 will now lay fallow for 72 days.

The hippo in the display has lost most of the ich spots, and no one else shows any signs. I know my display is now infected with ich, but if nobody shows any signs of it, can I ever consider it irradiated?

 

[Deinonych]

I know my display is now infected with ich, but if nobody shows any signs of it, can I ever consider it irradiated?

As long as you have fish in the display, the parasite's life cycle will continue. Going fallow means complete removal of all fish hosts for 72 days. More info on the parasite here:

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164

 

[Perth_reefer]

I know my display is now infected with ich, but if nobody shows any signs of it, can I ever consider it irradiated?

I'm in this same situation. I'm a constant poster about ich which probably irritates some people but I struggle to understand the parasite.
I know the life cycle and how the parasite works, however when I added my Purple tang it got a slight case of ich, none of my other 17 fish showed any symptoms at all. The Purple tang now has now shown no signs of ich at all for about a month. Within this time I would have expected ich to come back with a vengeance but nothing.
I'm not naive enough to think ich is gone from my tank but why did it only affect one fish out of 18? I've heard of fish developing an immunity for up to 6 months, so am I expecting a massive ich outbreak in a few months time? I've heard of people running tanks infected by ich for years without outbreaks.
There just doesn't seem to be enough research into the parasite to know exactly how it operates when fish have been previously exposed to it.

 

[Fin Mike]

I'm in this same situation. I'm a constant poster about ich which probably irritates some people but I struggle to understand the parasite.
I know the life cycle and how the parasite works, however when I added my Purple tang it got a slight case of ich, none of my other 17 fish showed any symptoms at all. The Purple tang now has now shown no signs of ich at all for about a month. Within this time I would have expected ich to come back with a vengeance but nothing.
I'm not naive enough to think ich is gone from my tank but why did it only affect one fish out of 18? I've heard of fish developing an immunity for up to 6 months, so am I expecting a massive ich outbreak in a few months time? I've heard of people running tanks infected by ich for years without outbreaks.
There just doesn't seem to be enough research into the parasite to know exactly how it operates when fish have been previously exposed to it.

Obviously your not the only one who struggles with this topic. I have a bunch of questions.

One thing I do know is that the next time I buy a fish, they are automatically going to go into TTM phase as soon as I get home. After that, heavy observation and a hair line trigger if I suspect any other maladies.

The worst part of this stinking parasite is the fallow period. I have to wait 71 days now until I can put something into my 40 observation tank(going to have to wait on the regal angel). Pain in the yarse! :headwally:

As for the display tank, I guess it will always have the parasite since I have no way of quarantining such a large fish as that Hippo. I could put him and all the other fish through TTM, but I don't know what to do after the 12 day period. I can't keep him in a 55 for two months. Seems kinda cruel, although I'm sure some reading this post will think that already being that he's in a 120.

 

[Perth_reefer]

Obviously your not the only one who struggles with this topic. I have a bunch of questions.

One thing I do know is that the next time I buy a fish, they are automatically going to go into TTM phase as soon as I get home. After that, heavy observation and a hair line trigger if I suspect any other maladies.

The worst part of this stinking parasite is the fallow period. I have to wait 71 days now until I can put something into my 40 observation tank(going to have to wait on the regal angel). Pain in the yarse! :headwally:

As for the display tank, I guess it will always have the parasite since I have no way of quarantining such a large fish as that Hippo. I could put him and all the other fish through TTM, but I don't know what to do after the 12 day period. I can't keep him in a 55 for two months. Seems kinda cruel, although I'm sure some reading this post will think that already being that he's in a 120.

Oh I have a heap of questions too but have asked them before and no one on here seems to know enough about the parasite to give answers unfortunately.
With regards to your hippo tang, I think you may find it showing signs of ich fairly frequently, these are quite sensitive fish IMO.
One thing I do see mentioned a lot is that the fish are suffering if you don't eradicate ich from your tank. I was reading through the link about ich and couldn't find anywhere where it said the fish were suffering when they had immunity and were acting as carriers (although admittedly I did only scan over it). I'd liken this to us suffering after developing partial immunity to the flu after a flu shot, which we obviously don't.
Imagine if the fish weren't suffering, and you had ich present in your tank but they did not show symptoms because you provided a stress free, well fed environment that was well balanced with high water quality, isn't that what we all should be striving to do anyway?
There was a thread a few weeks ago from someone who had ich in their tank but hadn't had an outbreak for 3 years or so, they got lambasted for making their fish suffer, but the fact that they had not had an outbreak for 3 years for me was a testament to their ability as a reef keeper and the fact that their fish obviously had a good immune system due to a stress free life.

 

[Fin Mike]

Oh I have a heap of questions too but have asked them before and no one on here seems to know enough about the parasite to give answers unfortunately.
With regards to your hippo tang, I think you may find it showing signs of ich fairly frequently, these are quite sensitive fish IMO.
One thing I do see mentioned a lot is that the fish are suffering if you don't eradicate ich from your tank. I was reading through the link about ich and couldn't find anywhere where it said the fish were suffering when they had immunity and were acting as carriers (although admittedly I did only scan over it). I'd liken this to us suffering after developing partial immunity to the flu after a flu shot, which we obviously don't.
Imagine if the fish weren't suffering, and you had ich present in your tank but they did not show symptoms because you provided a stress free, well fed environment that was well balanced with high water quality, isn't that what we all should be striving to do anyway?
There was a thread a few weeks ago from someone who had ich in their tank but hadn't had an outbreak for 3 years or so, they got lambasted for making their fish suffer, but the fact that they had not had an outbreak for 3 years for me was a testament to their ability as a reef keeper and the fact that their fish obviously had a good immune system due to a stress free life.

I can't say with 100% certainty that ich hasn't been present for the 6 years it has been setup. One thing I can say for certain is that this tang, nor any of the other tank inhabitants are suffering. I've grown that tang from 3in to its present 7-8 inches. He's a tank. He has to be an inch and a half thick. I'm not too worried. Although I know this is no "cure", I will be purchasing some Dr. G's parasite caviar as a hedge in this case.

I totally agree with you that well established, otherwise healthy fish can beat this thing. No other fish show any signs of problems. Besides, I baby them. They only eat the best fresh South Carolina seafood all chopped up and marinated in Selcon. BTW, this is the first time that tang has had ich in about 5 years.

What I don't get is that if no fish show signs of infection, how can ich continue to live and complete its life cycle. If the fish are "immune", how can the theronts feed to make it to the next stage in the life cycle, unless they are doing it despite there being no signs of infection. If it does remain, then it must come out of its dormancy when a weak fish is introduced providing an opportunity for infestation.

Some answers would be great.

 

[Lauracooks]

I just got over an outbreak. I followed an enormous variety of advice. I increased my temp to 82, added a UV sterilized, fed the heck out of the tank with garlic soaked food, used kick ich, dropped my salinity, added stress coat, cleaner shrimp and a blue neon goby. Outbreak lasted for 4 weeks. I have been clean for 2 months now. I keep watching but no sign. Is it dormant or gone?

 

[snorvich]

I just got over an outbreak. I followed an enormous variety of advice. I increased my temp to 82, added a UV sterilized, fed the heck out of the tank with garlic soaked food, used kick ich, dropped my salinity, added stress coat, cleaner shrimp and a blue neon goby. Outbreak lasted for 4 weeks. I have been clean for 2 months now. I keep watching but no sign. Is it dormant or gone?

Increasing temperature with saltwater ich is contraindicated as it reduces dissolved oxygen in the water as ich is almost always present in the gills. UV has little to no effect on ich except if it isolates tanks which share water with other tanks. Garlic has no effect on ich, and is actually bad long term for fish health. Kich ich does not work. Cleaner shrimp and cleaner fish do not eat ich off the fish as it is below the skin.

 

[Perth_reefer]

I just got over an outbreak. I followed an enormous variety of advice. I increased my temp to 82, added a UV sterilized, fed the heck out of the tank with garlic soaked food, used kick ich, dropped my salinity, added stress coat, cleaner shrimp and a blue neon goby. Outbreak lasted for 4 weeks. I have been clean for 2 months now. I keep watching but no sign. Is it dormant or gone?

I think what probably happened here Laura is that you had the means to get over the outbreak before you did anything. By feeding well and providing a stress free environment your fish had a strong enough immune system to not succumb to the parasite.
People do tend to throw all these 'remedies' into the tank when ich arises...they don't work when fish start dying and they apparently do work when fish don't die, but in reality by promoting fish health with good reef keeping techniques fish can (and should) be strong enough to fight it off.
So the question is now there whether your fish are now immune...or carriers...or whether in 4 months when this immunity supposedly 'wears off' you'll see another outbreak.

 

[Lauracooks]

I'm going to keep hoping. I am continuing to feed heavily and keeping my parameters good. I'll keep watch and update at the 4 month mark.

 

[Bmwm235i]

I just got over an outbreak. I followed an enormous variety of advice. I increased my temp to 82, added a UV sterilized, fed the heck out of the tank with garlic soaked food, used kick ich, dropped my salinity, added stress coat, cleaner shrimp and a blue neon goby. Outbreak lasted for 4 weeks. I have been clean for 2 months now. I keep watching but no sign. Is it dormant or gone?

Dormant.... from what I have learned and still learning a lot of people have fish that have ich. However the fish are healthy and not stressed out so their immune systems can hold off the parasite. It's like us humans when out immune systems wear down from stress, lack of sleep and bad nutrition we get sick, even though we were around anyone that had signs of being sick... we all carry germs but we fight it off from taking over.

 

[Bmwm235i]

I'm going to keep hoping. I am continuing to feed heavily and keeping my parameters good. I'll keep watch and update at the 4 month mark.

While you wait you should start up a qt tank, once up and running treat the fish with copper and let the dt tank go fish less for 72 days. Then you won't have to keep hoping and have a sensitive tank. I'm 5 days into copper... fish go back to dt on Nov 10th. Any fish I purchase moving forward will go into a qt copper treatment then prazipro then 2-3 weeks for observation then to dt. Rather treat one fish then have 4 fish in a qt.