Is this brook? (pics)

[Ocicat]

Sorry for the poor pics - the glass is dirty, and there is no direct light on this tank since it's a QT.

Please look at the fish on the right. The glass of the tank is dirty - what concerns me is the white patch above his (pectoral?) fin. From the right angle, it appears fuzzy. http://erronis.net/aquarium/2006_12_07/IMG_2023.JPG

Another of the patch on his right side (those speckles are on the glass - again, it's the gray/white patch that is of concern): http://erronis.net/aquarium/2006_12_07/IMG_2028.JPG

This his other side; his left fin looks fuzzy/streaked. He's actually had these dull/white areas on this fin for several days and it's hard to see them very well in this QT (obviously something I need to improve since that's the point of QT!), but he had no other symptoms & was very active, eating, etc, so I wasn't sure it was a disease. http://erronis.net/aquarium/2006_12_07/IMG_2021.JPG

I have been keeping an eye on that fin. Then, this afternoon when I fed them, he did not eat; he's always eaten eagerly before. This sounded the alarm, and after watching him for a while I spotted this patch.

I have been treating with cupramine since last Friday 12/1, because the other of the pair showed ich. I checked my copper level today and while I can't give a very precise value (AP test kit is vague), it had gone down - I had some rock in the tank and also a sprinkling of sand, which I read can absorb copper, so I just removed the rocks this evening.

If this is brook, then the Cupramine should cure it, correct? (Assuming I keep my level high enough.) I also have SeaChem ParaGuard, but I haven't used it; I'm not sure whether I can use it simultaneously with Cupramine.

 

[Ocicat]

One more thing - If this is brook, I could do a dip with the ParaGuard. The label suggests that it is a safer alternative to Formalin. If I should do a dip, is it productive to dip them and then put them back into the same water? Basically, is brook only on the fish (so it could be cured by a dip), or is it in the water also?

 

[Ocicat]

One more thing... Although the ich is no longer visible on the other fish, and he seems much happier than he did when he had visible ich, he is still "flashing" occasionally. Besides this, he is active and eating.

Neither appears to be gasping or lethargic.

 

[JokerGirl]

My clown is going through the same fuzzy patches as well, but no one seems willing to help.

 

[Ocicat]

Thanks, JokerGirl, good to know I'm not alone...

It would be a huge help just to get a yes/no on whether it is brook... And a yes/no on whether a ParaGuard dip would be worthwhile.

Or I am wondering if it's likely to be a bacterial infection and I should go get some Maracyn (I or II?).

 

[JokerGirl]

I think it is brook. Mine began showing small spotting today and had wedged himself between the glass of the tank and the overflow box. I had thought it was just an abrasion from netting when I got him last saturday so I didn't QT (my tank is still new, only in there with a couple damsels I'm going to get rid of anyways) but its definately looking like brook. I went ahead and set up the QT this morning with hyposalinity and some formalin. Been in there for about 6 hours now and is doing fine so I hope this helps. I'll probably add some maracyn II to counter-act any possible bacterial infections that might develop.

Here's a photo of mine a few days ago although not very clear. Couldn't catch a point when he would stop moving.

 

[Ocicat]

Well, both clowns are dead. I didn't get any advice here, and none of the LFS had formalin, so I did a freshwater dip followed by dosing the tank with QuickCure (which contains formalin & malachite green). The first one died about an hour later, and the second a few hours after that; I assume the FW dip was too much for them. I read about varying dip lengths here and elsewhere, and finally went with a recommendation from wetwebmedia to do a 10-min dip (in RO water that was temp- and pH-adjusted) while watching them closely... After initial shock, they were swimming and apparently fine for those 10 min so I left them for the duration. After the dip, when I was picking up the QuickCure, an LFS worker told me 10 min was way too long for the first dip.

I shouldn't have done anything, but I felt like I had to b/c I read that brook is almost always fatal if left unchecked. I'm starting to feel like, aside from isolating the fish to avoid infecting others, there are very few courses of action that ever actually succeed with any of these diseases (with the exception of ich, which fish often survive on their own anyhow). When you do a search for threads on treatments, the majority of them end like mine - "Well, I did x and y, but they died."

 

[JokerGirl]

I'm so sorry to hear that Ocicat Mine is hanging in there and the hyposaline/formalin QT seems to be doing okay. Keeps getting small pustules that fall off about an hour later.

I decided not to try a freshwater dip simply because this book I've got called "The complete book of the Marine Aquarium" said that a FW dip would kill anything afflicted with brook and that there really isn't any true cure on the market for it.

QuickCure would've worked. It's what I'm using and seems to be doing alright for him. I'll get a photo in a bit. The fuzzy patch by his dorsal is gone, but the one on it's back is still looming slighly.

I'd keep an eye on any of your other fish that were in with them, and if there weren't, I'd keep that tank fish free for a month or so to make sure any of the protozoan cysts are dead.

I'll try to get a good photo of mine in a bit here in his QT. Still hanging out at the top a bunch but it may also be because it is a bare tank with a fairly strong flow from the filter on it. Hasn't lost its appetite yet which I take as a good sign.

Again I'm sorry Wish things had worked out better for you.

 

[adtravels]

I have also had several problems with fish and patchses and grows etc when buying them.
"brook" is only one type of protozoan that infects fish and many people dont know about the others so call it brook.

All of these parasites exist in the wild and after haveing fish recover fron brook, ich, velvet, bacterial infection and fugus I truley believe stress to be THE number 1 killer, stress caused the immune system to weaken hormones to be released and all sorts of major physiological problems.

It is hard to remove the stress because it is inevitable when moving wild creatures stress will be caused. Here are several tihngs I can reccomend to make sure that you will not have fish die again. (this is based on personal experience only)
1. dont use nets, handle the fish as little as possible trying to make sure their mucus coating and scales stay in tact.
2. QT if possible but only if the qt tank is large, established and has plenty of cover. If not then putting them in the display may be better becase of extra stress caused by the qt tank(only do this if they are the first fish in the tank).
3. Dont put new fish in a tank (qt or otherwise) with aggressive or territorial fish that will bite or nip because the wounds become a site for infection.
4. Whatever food you give soak it in garlic, vitamins lime juice etc or feed an immunoboosting prepared food.
5. keep your hands out of the tank for a few weeks if possible.
6. Keep the water params really stable witin an acceptable range i.e. it does not matter if you have a few nitrates or low s.g as long as you are not changing the around, more importantly keep temperature perfectly stable as this affects blood pH and therfore can cause more stress.
7. Buy captive raised, healthy looking fish for many reasons like used to humans used to prepared foods, used to less than perfect water etc.

I dont do all of these all of the time but do strive to and I dont get many disease issues any more. Yet I know that there are pathogens in my tanks, I wish there were not but there are, however my fish dont display the symptoms as they are in a low stress environment and fed well.

 

[Ocicat]

JokerGirl, I wish I would've had that book!! Damn.

They were alone in a QT tank, so fortunately no other fish were exposed. I'll empty & refill the QT tank before I get any more fish - do you think I need to do more than just rinse it out?

adtravels, good advice... The QT I used is a 20 Long. I am planning to set up a bigger/better QT tank, although it'll probably be just 29 gal so I'm not sure that's really big enough (since the display is 180). I agree about lots of cover; this time around I had fake plants in there, and although the clowns were wild-caught they really did not seem shy or stressed at all. They were eating and curious right after I got them home.

Damn that FW dip... I put too much faith in wetwebmedia. When I saw that both had stopped eating I panicked and thought I had to do something fast.

 

[JokerGirl]

I'd probably empty your QT and let it air dry. That should be enough to kill any of the protizoans that were living in it.

My clown hasn't seemed shy or stressed out. I didn't know it was wild-caught and it looked perfectly healthy when I brought it home. Acclimated him, even try eating my finger while I was doing that. Ate about an hour after I placed it in my main tank (I only have a couple of damsels in there that were for cycling my tank)

I'm trying to figure out what to do now though. I pulled the clown out as soon as I saw a small patch of velvet on its side and the damsels were briefly exposed to it but its been almost a week now and they aren't showing any signs of illness. They're such a pain in the *** to catch and I'm worried about re-exposing the clown to it after it gets better.

Well I wish the best for ya Ocicat. So sorry that you lost your guys. Still hoping that mine hangs in just a bit longer for the medicine to really kick into it's immune system.

 

[Ocicat]

What kind of damsels do you have? They are not all as evil as their reputation suggests... I have a pair of yellowtails, and I love 'em. But yellowtails are known to be one of the least aggressive damsels. Just last night my husband was watching them and marveling at how fast they are; sometimes they dart so quickly that it's like they just disappear.

Thank you for your condolences! I hope your guy pulls through.

 

[JokerGirl]

Mine are yellowtails. They were treating the clown perfectly fine for the little bit of time he was in with them. I don't think they'll be a problem even though everyone keeps telling me to get rid of them. I've got several other tanks with african cichlids in... they are aggressive, but not these little guys!!

I will agree with you on how quick they are!!! I'll walk in the room and off they go into the rocks.


My guy is looking a lot better today! getting his spunk back, and coming up to the front wanting to get attention like he was the first couple of days. Seems to be pulling through, but we'll see.