Killing ich help pls

[ladwpwrkr]

Ok so my lemon peel tang died of ich last week:mad2:...now my two clowns are going down hill. So I put em in a 5 gallon bucket with 4 gallons of tank water, some sand/gravel from my tank (to keep an ammonia spike down), an air stone, and a heater. I then dosed with "rid-ich".

I was told by one LFS to dose daily, change water daily, and in about 3 days they should be better. I was told by another LFS that i didnt need to change the water daily, and that I could put the fish back in the DT when its all cleared up.

I have no other fish in the tank at the moment. What should I do?? How long before i put them back in the dt (considering they make it)??Any and all advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[bina770]

I have the exact same problem to the T.

My tang died, cause of ich. So I am left with my 2 clown fish, I notices some spots. I took them out of the main tank and placed them in a 5 Gallon. I am using the rid ich as well. The only advice I was giving is to keep them in their for 10 days, not 3 , cause ich takes at least a week to get rid of and then a few extra days we need. Also if you are using the organic stuff you need not do the water change, if not yes you must change water daily b-4 each dose. It should be on instructions.

For next time you get a tang, always treat him b4 you put him in the main tank, also look in to cleaner shrimp, i was told they work great. Good luck

 

[RBU1]

Rid ich will not work. No reef safe treatments work. You have to set up a tank to treat them in with either copper or Hypo salinity. Now that your main tank has it that must stay falow for at least 10 to 12 weeks. Don't think a 5 gallon busket will cut it for that long of time. Get a small tank and a small hang on filter and do 100% water changes every couple days so you don't kill the fish with an amonnia spike.

 

[Chris27]

You folks (excluding RBU) have some reading ahead of you. Understanding the life-cycle of the parasite will be the difference between a successful treatment and a meager attempt at eradication. Just about every treatment out there targets the free swimming stage of the parasite, so treating a fish in a bucket for a few days most likely won't work very well.

At this point, with the fish, sand and rock in the makeshift QT (bucket), hypo would be a good idea since you're already set up for it.

Here is a great article to read through, and doing a search for Cryptocaryon irritans will warrant many more.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

Good Luck - if it's early enough you'll be able to get those little guys cured right up and be on your way to a healthy tank. If you have any QT questions, ask away!

 

[DustinB]

Hyposalinity or cupramine are your best choices. Your choice which way you go, either would be fine for a hearty fish like a clown. Cupramine is probably the best choice if you are new as hyposalinity is tough to maintain parameters. I wouldn't recommend any 100% water changes either. Maybe 30% each day to keep stress down.

Read the directions on the bottle, remove all sand and rock. No carbon filters either. Get a seachem ammonia badge to monitor ammonia levels.

After reading the directions and verifying you have the copper levels where they need to be, continue to treat for 2-3 weeks. When you make the water for water changes, bring the copper level up to the required level on the water change water. That way the levels are the same as the water you take out.

Read all you can, this is going to be a lot of work and the fish are going to have a 50/50 chance of making it. Ich can kill very fast if the fish are stressed and you don't treat soon enough. Also, don't add any ammonia reducing chemicals to the tank when dosing cupramine, it will kill everything.

Good luck.

 

[t4zalews]

IMHO, my UV sterilizer has eliminated ich forever in my tank. I remember back when I first started without it I had constant ich battles, some ending in death of fishes. Then I incorporated my UV sterilizer and havnet had a problem since. I've had multiple tangs and they never had any signs of ich. No cleaner shrimp/goby/wrasse. Just the UV. Some people say that the UV has no effective impact on ich, but I highly disagree. Im an example of a success story with UV.

 

[RBU1]

IMHO, my UV sterilizer has eliminated ich forever in my tank. I remember back when I first started without it I had constant ich battles, some ending in death of fishes. Then I incorporated my UV sterilizer and havnet had a problem since. I've had multiple tangs and they never had any signs of ich. No cleaner shrimp/goby/wrasse. Just the UV. Some people say that the UV has no effective impact on ich, but I highly disagree. Im an example of a success story with UV.

You will probably get some debate over this. Some people feel UV doesnt do anything. I on the other hand think that if you have a properly sized UV it will work. From a discussion I had with the folks from Emperor Aquatics at MACNA last year you want the wattage of the UV to be about half the gallon size of the tank. Thats a real rough range they told me I should have about a 120 watt unit on my 300 so that gives you an idea. So if you have a 100 gallon tank you will want a 50 watt uv. Size and water flow are real important for an effective UV.

 

[Kieth71]

I think the uv can keep it under some control given the uv is beig enough but will never eliminate it.If buying a gizmo got rid of it we would all use it.Unfortunatly their is only the hard way as stated above-Kieth

 

[fcmatt]

Now that your main tank has it that must stay falow for at least 10 to 12 weeks.

I do not think that is an accurate statement.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/dec2003/mini2.htm
" If the fish are moved from a display aquarium for treatment elsewhere, the display tank should be left without fish (fallow with the exception of invertebrates) for a minimum of 30 days. This is generally a long enough time period for the parasite to die out for lack of a host (i.e. fish). Again, a longer fallow period adds an extra measure of safety."

10 weeks is 70 days. 12 weeks is 84 days.
Even if you double the time this article discussed you are at 60 days.
Plus if you increase the temp of your display up to 80-82ish degrees you can speed
things up a bit more.

just throwing this out there. it seems the more i read about ich and keeping the display
fallow the time required just keeps on increasing and increasing.

 

[DustinB]

Plus if you increase the temp of your display up to 80-82ish degrees you can speed
things up a bit more.

just throwing this out there. it seems the more i read about ich and keeping the display
fallow the time required just keeps on increasing and increasing.

You need to stop reading about freshwater ich. Temperature has been shown to have little to no effect on the life cycle of marine ich.

As for the timeframe, I have seen people treat with copper for 30 days and have it come back. I agree 10-weeks is excessive, but at least 6-8 would be ideal IMO. Ich sucks and several weeks is a lot of time to waste to not get rid of it, only to have to start over.

 

[Kieth71]

Temp has nothing to do with marine ich that is the freshwater variety.If you are going through the trouble of moving out all of your fish i would recomend 8-12 weeks regardless of what you read.30 days is bare minimum and i wouldnt risk it.Some strains of ich seem to be more resiliant so that may also be some of the reason for the increase in days needed.All i know is if i was going to catch the fish out of my tank and take the time needed to treat all of them rushing them back into the display is a bad idea-Kieth

 

[RBU1]

Read about the life cycle for Crypt and the amount of time it can stay tormant. I am not willing to take a chance. I would rather wait it out longer...

 

[RBU1]

Now that your main tank has it that must stay falow for at least 10 to 12 weeks.

I do not think that is an accurate statement.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/dec2003/mini2.htm
" If the fish are moved from a display aquarium for treatment elsewhere, the display tank should be left without fish (fallow with the exception of invertebrates) for a minimum of 30 days. This is generally a long enough time period for the parasite to die out for lack of a host (i.e. fish). Again, a longer fallow period adds an extra measure of safety."

10 weeks is 70 days. 12 weeks is 84 days.
Even if you double the time this article discussed you are at 60 days.
Plus if you increase the temp of your display up to 80-82ish degrees you can speed
things up a bit more.

just throwing this out there. it seems the more i read about ich and keeping the display
fallow the time required just keeps on increasing and increasing.

Read it again Matt....It states cooler waters but I am not willing to take that chance..Not to mention there are the other stages that it can be in from a few days to a week....
The time frame in which tomonts may hatch can vary greatly from 3 to 72 days (Noga, 2000).

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/dec2003/mini2.htm

 

[Jstdv8]

Temp does indeed have an effect on marine ich. Read up on some of Julian Sprung's work. He deals in marine ich liefe cycles. He has posted that marine ich has been seen to go as long as 9 weeks but not at a temp anywhere near what we keep our reefs at.
The longest he has seen in his studies is 28 days. this is why we usually use 1 month (or 4 weeks) as a general QT rule.

 

[RBU1]

Temp does indeed have an effect on marine ich. Read up on some of Julian Sprung's work. He deals in marine ich liefe cycles. He has posted that marine ich has been seen to go as long as 9 weeks but not at a temp anywhere near what we keep our reefs at.
The longest he has seen in his studies is 28 days. this is why we usually use 1 month (or 4 weeks) as a general QT rule.

Point me in the direction of some of his work and I will be happy to read it...

 

[fcmatt]

Read it again Matt....It states cooler waters but I am not willing to take that chance..Not to mention there are the other stages that it can be in from a few days to a week....
The time frame in which tomonts may hatch can vary greatly from 3 to 72 days (Noga, 2000).

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/dec2003/mini2.htm

Well it already has been discussed that temp does play a role in how long it
takes for tomonts to hatch. I think this is a fact. 72 days is for cooler waters.

Tomonts is the stage that appears to be discussed in terms of weeks, not hours
or days. So that is the stage we all probably worry about when discussing
leaving a display fallow.

I agree with all other posters who state that why bother go fallow for 30 days
only when you are easily able to extend it out further. The question is how
much further.

Extending the time out further and further is only wise to a certain point. After
that certain point it just becomes overkill. After all, a person could easily say
16 weeks and would that make them even more correct in how to handle ich?

That is what I am trying to figure out from this discussion.

 

[RBU1]

I don't think anyone is going to be able to give you a firm answer to that question.

 

[weezyfella]

ich could possibly be the worst disease/parasite. and I've experience it in the first month of having my tank up. I've kept it fallow for a month and so far it seems to have done the trick, but at the same time I'm running a 9w UV sterilizer on the tank now since then. So I too would agree that a UV light would help clearing it out.

 

[Jstdv8]

well, you also have to assume that if the tank is fallow then the fish that were in that tank are probbaly in some sort of treatment. long term exposure to hyposalinity causes liver shut down which is hard on your fish. I don't recall if there is any ill effects to copper long term, but I prefer to go with the proffesionals and say 4-6 weeks depending on how the fish is eating and is generaly healthy looking. If proffesionals who make a living studying these things say that marine ich will be gone from my system in 30 days I'll take thier word for it.

RBU1,
Actually I hadn't clicked on the link that was posted until after I posted it, but the author of that piece I beleive is in some way joined with Julian Sprung.
When i looked up his name I came up with "two little fishes" which is a company that makes all sorts of products for our tanks. he is co-owner. and then I came up with that same link. Julian has written several books on the subject so that would be the best i could point you too for something to read, but I beleive the posted link is sufficient even though it wasn't written by him directly.

 

[ladwpwrkr]

Wow, thanks everyone for the all input. looks like everyone has a lil bit of their own success and you all stick by what has worked. Well, I better get reading....fast.

As for my situation:

dosed yesterday.
80% water change today, then dosed again.
Fish are eating very well again (especially the sicker one).
They seem to be doing better already....Ill keep my fingers crossed though.

I need to go and get a 10 gal QT if I am gonna keep the lil ones out of the dt for at least 30 days!