Koran Angel in QT

R

rinconmike

Member
I got a Juvi Koran Angel around 4" long and have him in a 55 gallon QT that I have had set up for a while.


Day 1 in QT: 4/29 got Koran and Put in QT
Day 8 in QT: 5/8 added Prazipro
Day 13 in QT: 5/11 added some carbon and did 20% water change
Day 15 in QT: 5/13 did 10% water change, remove Carbon and added 5ml of Cupramine, Red Sea and Seachem Test kits around .25
Day 17 in QT: 5/15 added 3ml of Cupramine, tests around .35 to .4

Day 19 in QT, Day 5 with Cupramine: 5/17 (yesterday) his activity dropped and breathing looked a little heavy. Also looks like he is sharply twitching his head at times. So I changed out 3 gallons of water. I did not add any more cupramine. Tests looks around .25 to .25 (it is hard to tell with Seachem).

Outside of the behavior on Day 19, I have seen no signs of sickness. No spots, no heavy breathing.

I have a Seachem alert and it shows no ammonia. I did not test with a kit since I have read I will get false positives with cupramine, but might test tonight.

PH is around 8.1 to 8.2.

Figure I would post here to see if anyone thinks I should be doing anything else or stay the course? I was going to treat with Cupramine for 28 days.

thanks,

Mike
 
Is he still twitching his head? Sometimes you need to do more than just one dose of Prazi to completely knock out Flukes.
 
the twitching only started a couple days after I started cupramine. I am wondering if it is something or he just does not like the cupramine.

Also, my water got a little cloudy. I am wondering if that is due to adding cupramine with some prazipro still in the water.

Mike
 
Angels are more sensitive to copper than other fish but if you're gonna treat one with copper, Cupramine is the safest. I've used it before on Angels w/o any issues. I've also used Cupramine and Prazi concurrently, and don't remember the water getting cloudy. Did you check your ammonia?
 
i have a sea chem ammo alert and it shows no change.

I will test ammonia tonight, but read on seachem site that cupramine will register as ammonia on test kits.

I will also try another ammo alert.
 
rinconmike said:
i have a sea chem ammo alert and it shows no change.

I will test ammonia tonight, but read on seachem site that cupramine will register as ammonia on test kits.

I will also try another ammo alert.
Click to expand...

I use the Salifert ammonia test kit and it seems to work w/cupramine
 
I'd stay the course then. If he starts looking bad or breathing heavy or something, you might wanna do a W/C or run some carbon. I had a Juv Emperor once that after 3 weeks of Copper he just couldn't take it anymore. He was breathing heavy, wouldn't eat, etc. I did a W/C, ran some carbon, and he perked right back up and was fine from then on in. I guess there's only so much copper a fish can take and each fish has a different tolerance.
 
Last night I changed 5% water and also tested ammonia and it showed zero.

Both seachem ammo alerts showed nothing (center yellow).

This morning both ammo alerts had a hint of green. Tested ammonia again with the salifert kit and showed none. I used this kit a couple of months ago when curing rock and it did register ammonia so I think the kit works.

I plan on changing 30% water tonight and testing with a couple of kits (might test before too).

I also plan on testing the Copper and adding some more to get to .25 to. 35.

Mike
 
Just watch that Angel with the copper. He might start breathing heavy and stop eating at first when you raise the copper levels. If this goes on for more than a few days, I'd remove all the copper. The danger is sometimes when a fish stops eating, he stops eating permanently, no matter what you do. I also like to increase aeration while treating with copper. For me, this means opening up the air tube running to my powerhead...
 
Some angels can, especially dwarfs, will not tolerate copper well. I always take about 4-5 days to get the copper to .5ppm. But if he still doesn't handle it, you can reduce it until he finds a comfort level. Cupramine is usually effective at about .3; but I don't like "usually" when it comes to parasites. For what its worth; SeaChem (mfg of Cupramine) says only a SeaChem or Red Sea copper test works well with Cupramine. You did remove the copper, right? How is the Koran eating, that's often an indication of how he's handling the copper?

On another subject, here's a copy of how I cycle a QT; ammonia is then never a problem:

COPY:
In regards to Qt cycling; I've done this for years. Get a HOB filter; I really like Aqua-Clear, they have a big sponge and last forever. Don't use the carbon or ceramic noodles that come with the filter. Also, have some extra sponges on hand, they're cheap. Keep a sponge in the flow somewhere in your DT. When you need a QT or HT, just use the sponge that has been in your main system in your QT filter---the QT will be instantly cycled. When done, toss the sponge and keep a new one ready in your main system.
BTW, Cupramine copper, used in a QT,will not destroy a bio-filter.
 
I have an aquaclear 70 and a Dr. FS HOB filter too (Bio System Power Filter & Oxy Surface Skimmer 75 ), so I have two HOB on the 55. I have no carbon in these, but I am using both the sponge and the other bio media (looks like large pellets) on the Aquaclear and just the sponges on the other.

I did remove cupramine with carbon after my last fish. Then the tank sat for about 2 weeks with the filters running but no fish in it (kept the carbon in there).

Before Putting the new fish in I did a water change (10%) and rinsed the sponges on each filter. However, I rinsed for around 10 seconds under tap water and am wondering if that was a mistake and I killed bacteria.

I am not sure if I have an ammonia issue and think the issue is with the cupramine. The salifert Ammonia kit shows no ammonia, but the seachem ammo alert shows a hint (hint of green instead of yellow center).

Fish is not eating as well due to the cupramine (I think).

Tonight I am going to change 30% water (15 gallons) and add back in some more cupramine (if needed) to get to around .25.

thanks
 
Unless the sponges spent 3 weeks or so in an active system, they wouldn't be holding much bacteria yet anyhow. Even if they were cycled, I doubt that a quick FW (with chlorine) rinse would do any more than a partial wipe-out of the bacteria. Bacteria is tough stuff and multiplies at an incredible rate when it has a food source (ammonia) available. The ceramic noodles, once cycled, hold more tan enough bacteria to keep a QT ammonia/nitrite free. Of course, they do nothing for nitrate----which shouldn't even be a concern in a QT.
 
thanks. I set the 55QT up on 12/17, used table shrimp to do a cycle. QT some damsels, and then after that a 6" Wrasse, so it has had a bioload, not sure if enough.

I tested the ammonia last night an nothing with two different Salifert kits (in case one had bad chemicals). I did test with API and that was off the chart but I think that is the cupramine.

The fish was better, but I still did a 30% water change. Still head twitching though so I did another dose of prazipro (2.75 Teaspons for 55 gallons, bottle says 1 teaspoon for every 20 gallons).

Copper looks around .2 to .25 so I have not added any more cupramine in. Still no visual signs of sickness.

Fish ate some mysis last night too.

thanks,

Mike
 
activity seemed normal over the weekend. The fish does have signs of what looks like ich on his side fins. Looks like salt pieces clumped together. On the end of one of the lower fins it looks like a white crust balling up. I assume these signs are ich. I would post a pic, but the fish does not stay still now.

I have the cupramine at what looks like at lease .25, but but might add another .25 ml today and another .25ml tomorrow assuming activity is fine. I will test before and after each dose, but i still find it hard to read the Seachem kits with precision.
 
rinconmike said:
activity seemed normal over the weekend. The fish does have signs of what looks like ich on his side fins. Looks like salt pieces clumped together. On the end of one of the lower fins it looks like a white crust balling up. I assume these signs are ich. I would post a pic, but the fish does not stay still now.

I have the cupramine at what looks like at lease .25, but but might add another .25 ml today and another .25ml tomorrow assuming activity is fine. I will test before and after each dose, but i still find it hard to read the Seachem kits with precision.
Click to expand...

What you are describing might be lymphocytis. Would need a good pic to tell for sure. If it is lymphocytis, the fish's immune system is usually able to fight it off on it's own. Maintaining excellent water quality and feeding vitamin rich foods seems to help with this.
 
rinconmike said:
yes it does. Just nowhere near as much.
Click to expand...

All you can do then is wait it out. Lymphocystis (mis-spelled it the first time) is usually not fatal and the fish's immune system will usually fight if off. Might take a couple of months though so I hope he's happy in that QT. It's also usually not contagious but I still wouldn't chance it. Just keep your water quality good and feed a wide variety of nutritious foods like spirulina, mysis, anything vitamin-enriched really...
 
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