LED: vertex vs pacific sun, less is more?

P

polleke

Member
Hi all,

At the moment I am a bit confused :confused: and hoping someone here may point me in the right direction :idea:

What is going on: For my new reef tank (SPS mainly) I want to go LED. So doing my research online I came to two brands that are available here in the Netherlands which use cree leds. These are Vertex (illuminata 260) and Pacific sun (metis CRP or XM-L).

The aquarium will be 60x30x26 large (in inches), water depth 24".

The thing making me doubt is the following:
The vertex is using less power, 80W per unit. I would need 4 units --> 320 watt total. This is divided between XP-G cool white, XP-E royal blue and XP-E blue in a ratio of 2:1:1. All driven at max 2.5W per led. So a total of 128 leds.

The pacific sun CRP uses the same leds and also XP_G neutral white in a ratio of 1:1:1:1. Where both whites are driven at 5W and the blues at 3W. Of this I would need 3 units of 100W each --> 300 W total. This is about the same amount of power used but due to the much higher wattage per led there are much less leds used. At 24 leds per unit --> 72 leds in total.

And then finally there is the pacific sun metis XM-L. It is the same as the CRP but then all white leds are replaced by 10W XM-L leds. Giving a total power of 450 W.


The questions I am struggling with are mainly:
1) is pacific sun not overpowering the leds? I think vertex has more lumen per watt since it is not using the les at their max power. Also would this change the lifespan of the leds?

2) Since the vertex and the XM-L are about the same in price which would you choose? The vertex is 320W to XM-L 450W. This is quite a difference.
However with everything on full power the XM-L leds probably overpower the blue leds. Is this a problem for coral growth or pest algea growth? During the daytime I am not home so I don't mind the looks of it. I do like the idea of the extra punch for a couple of hours of the XM-L (whites only). Do you think it would be usefull?
Else I can save me some money and buy the metis CRP (that is if we agree that these leds are not abused at 5W a piece).


A long read, thank you for bearing with me so far ;), any help is appreciated.

Cheers,
Paul.
 
Poor CRI on XM-L? Where do they get this idea from??

I guess their fixtures is already built designed with 3w XP-G/XP-E's running at 700mA, in order to take advange of the XM-L they'll need to redesign the whole thing to accept larger current, since XM-L optimal output is around 4-5w running at 1.5A, giving about 500-650 lumen per bulb, or 130-140 lm/w, which is 200% more efficient than XP-G/XP-E at ~70lm/w.

See their PCB is designed with 16 bulbs burnt onto a single PCB, meaning there's little room for changes or adapting newer generation bulbs.
vertex_lumina_9(2).jpg


I guess because they can't change their design, they simply go ahead and bad-mouth the XM-L's.
 
at 24" water depth you would not need to go with the 260 illimunia the 200 would do what you need, i would pick the vertex over the pacfic sun, and i did in the end
 
3.99AfterTaxes said:
Whoa, fan boy much? LOL

Go to Cree's site, lower CRI (75) than the XPE's and XPG's. It's on their spec sheet. Can't really imaginate that from thin air since it's sorta listed by the manufacturer...

Anyway, the Illumina has modular pads and the power source can be swapped. The only thing it would take for it to run XML's, as far as I can tell, is a firmware update.

But again, the question is "why?"
Click to expand...

Hi, personally I want to choose based on what is available now. Not on what might come in a near or distant future and what may or may not be upgradable.
I must say I really like the vertex, it really does look and feel nicely build. Only thing is it is more expensive than the pacific sun CRP for about the same amount of W or as expensive with less power (XM-L)...

Thanks for your thoughts, if you can post the mail I am very interested in reading it.
 
Acrotrdco said:
Poor CRI on XM-L? Where do they get this idea from??
...
I guess because they can't change their design, they simply go ahead and bad-mouth the XM-L's.
Click to expand...


The color behavior of the XM-L I will have to look into. If only I can find a place to see them in real life... :hmm2:
 
aufo8mycat said:
at 24" water depth you would not need to go with the 260 illimunia the 200 would do what you need, i would pick the vertex over the pacfic sun, and i did in the end
Click to expand...

Hi, thanks for the reply! Do have a place with some images of your tank?

I would like the 260 if it is not too much more expensive since the leds are one generation newer and are more efficient. Less heat and lower electric bills for the same amount of light.
 
polleke said:
Hi, thanks for the reply! Do have a place with some images of your tank?

I would like the 260 if it is not too much more expensive since the leds are one generation newer and are more efficient. Less heat and lower electric bills for the same amount of light.
Click to expand...

I got the first generation 200 model and if I can do it again, I will get the 260 model whether your tank is 24" or 30" deep as you can adjust the intensity and leave room for future to increase the intensity when the LED ages.
 
Hi notclear, actually quite clear if you ask me. Another good reason to want the 260 version of the vertex. :)

Aufo8mycat, thanks for the link, looks like a very nice tank in the making!
 
i recently saw the black python fixture at progressive reef (the distributor). Wow. i currently have an Ai over my tank and have another lfs that has the vertex over their display tank, the pac sun fills the colour void by adding in the natural white leds.

I am in the process of planning a 90 gal and think that i would pull the trigger on the pacsun over the vertex. if you have a profilux they pretty much go hand in hand.

my .02
 
Hi, I decided to go with the pacific sun metis 3x100W. For the same price as the vertex 260 I can later add another metis 2x100W (no need to light the overflow) should I find out I don't have enough light.

Everybody, thanks for your help!
 
Meaty24 said:
Interesting. Anyone else like the Pacific Sun? What about the black python over the Metis XM?
Click to expand...

the black python is the work horse of the two fixtures. Its about 2 feet and packs either 160w or 200 w of power. the metis has 100w of leds/1.5ish feet.
 
What do you mean when you say work horse? They have lights in all different sizes. Also, doesn't the metis xm use less power and have better led's? Is there any reason to get the black python over the metis xm, other than pricing issues?
 
Meaty24 said:
What do you mean when you say work horse? They have lights in all different sizes. Also, doesn't the metis xm use less power and have better led's? Is there any reason to get the black python over the metis xm, other than pricing issues?
Click to expand...

sorry for the late reply. THe black python fixture come in only one size ( under 24") from my understanding and has 110W, 160w or 200 w worth of led. you can get the metis with xm'l white led's or the xp-e/xp-g. I don't think the XM-L version has been released yet though.

Check out the sponsor progressive reef. i think they are the distributor for canada/USA.

Metis:
http://progressivereef.com/proddetail.php?prod=PSun_Metis

Black python:
http://progressivereef.com/proddetail.php?prod=PSUN_Black_Python
 
polleke said:
Hi, I decided to go with the pacific sun metis 3x100W. For the same price as the vertex 260 I can later add another metis 2x100W (no need to light the overflow) should I find out I don't have enough light.

Everybody, thanks for your help!
Click to expand...

So did you get your Pacific Sun Metis yet? How do you like it?
 
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