Low ORP

F

Fred Fish

New member
Hi - very new to this hobby and it's a step learning curve so looking for some help. I have a 200 gallon salt tank with bio filter media, regular filter, active charcoal, a protein skimmer, and a UV light, also a chiller/heater. I have a lot of live rock, and recently bought a electronics water monitor. The issue is my cleanup crew all but died off and I lost a couple cool fish and two Anemones. I used distilled water for changes and I have a brown/red algae problem.

Here are the parameters in the tank -
PH 8.12
Salinity 3.19 %
ORP 132mV
Temp 75.5
SG 1.021

I tested for Nitrate using some test strips - it's so hard to tell when comparing colors but it looks like there could be an elevated level of that. I purchased a copper text kit but haven't gotten it yet. Not sure what the next move is - I know the tank needs the cleanup crew but I spent $300 on the last bunch that all puked.

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Fred
 
Nitrate and phosphate levels will tell you way more than ORP. You can have too much or too little of both.
You have to have test kits to run a marine tank.
Charcoal is almost pointless. Some people use but I think what is does is more in their mind than the tank.

Copper is unlikely unless you have a tank that had ich treatment for fish.
Your salinity is shown as a %. I have never seen that before.
You SG which is determined by how much salt mix you use is too low. Use 1.025-1.026.

If you can use Salifert test kits. They are accurate and easy to use. Get Nitrate, Phosphate, Calcium, Alkalinity, magnesium at a minimum.
How old is this tank. You might need an ammonia test kit if it is new.

There are a bunch of ideal levels for a marine tank. Some of theme are less important depending on what's in the tank but having all off them in the ballpark is important if you are running a mixed tank of different animals like snails, anemones, fish and crabs. Adding corals makes all of them somewhat important.

Ignore what is important for a freshwater tank. A salt tank is entirely different. Filtration is of little value and can be a problem more than a help.

BRS-AquariumParameter-HP-Hero-2400-v2.jpg

Everything above ORP is a must.
ORP(oxidative reductive potential) is dependent on you water chemistry. It may tell you something is wrong but it will never tell you what is wrong. It may tell you everything is okay.
I use it to control my ozone generator because it directly tells me how much ozone is in the reactor.

The stuff below ORP are trace elements which most get from their salt mix and dont need worried about unless you have a tank full of finicky corals. I believe iodine is important for animals like shrimp and crabs to molt properly but some people would disagree.
Keep learning. We all have too. It's part of this hobby.



There is a lot of knowledge here
Saltwater Aquarium Learning Center - Bulk Reef Supply
Partake of it. We are constantly learning here, sometime trying to remember what we forgot.
 
wvned said:
Nitrate and phosphate levels will tell you way more than ORP. You can have too much or too little of both.
You have to have test kits to run a marine tank.
Charcoal is almost pointless. Some people use but I think what is does is more in their mind than the tank.

Copper is unlikely unless you have a tank that had ich treatment for fish.
Your salinity is shown as a %. I have never seen that before.
You SG which is determined by how much salt mix you use is too low. Use 1.025-1.026.

If you can use Salifert test kits. They are accurate and easy to use. Get Nitrate, Phosphate, Calcium, Alkalinity, magnesium at a minimum.
How old is this tank. You might need an ammonia test kit if it is new.

There are a bunch of ideal levels for a marine tank. Some of theme are less important depending on what's in the tank but having all off them in the ballpark is important if you are running a mixed tank of different animals like snails, anemones, fish and crabs. Adding corals makes all of them somewhat important.

Ignore what is important for a freshwater tank. A salt tank is entirely different. Filtration is of little value and can be a problem more than a help.

BRS-AquariumParameter-HP-Hero-2400-v2.jpg

Everything above ORP is a must.
ORP(oxidative reductive potential) is dependent on you water chemistry. It may tell you something is wrong but it will never tell you what is wrong. It may tell you everything is okay.
I use it to control my ozone generator because it directly tells me how much ozone is in the reactor.

The stuff below ORP are trace elements which most get from their salt mix and dont need worried about unless you have a tank full of finicky corals. I believe iodine is important for animals like shrimp and crabs to molt properly but some people would disagree.
Keep learning. We all have too. It's part of this hobby.



There is a lot of knowledge here
Saltwater Aquarium Learning Center - Bulk Reef Supply
Partake of it. We are constantly learning here, sometime trying to remember what we forgot.
Click to expand...
Thank you for you detailed reply.

Sincerely appreciated - yeah I guess I screwed up - I bought what I thought was a good 7 parameter wireless test kit but it doesn't test for nitrates phosphates and ammonia levels - I have strips but those colors are nearly impossible to tell where you actually are.

I'm going to get a digital Nitrate tester so I can see exactly where that is. What is the best way to lower Nitrates if that is the problem.
Right now I'm scrapping brown algae of the tank every week and it builds up on the rocks and gravel. The strangest thing is the cleanup crew all died relatively quickly. Bought a $300 mix of snails and crabs - and they didn't last 3 weeks. Blue tang and clown fish are happym I have a couple corals that seem to be doing well. I've had the tank for 6 months or so but the rock came from an old tank that had been running for years...some mushrooms on the live rock etc, also some of the rock are covered in a dark redish almost purple algea. I took out a few rocks and boiled them to see if I could clean things up a bit.

I guess I'll take some more tests and see where I am - I want to add more cleanup crew but I don't want to drop another $300 only to end up with dozens of empty snail and crap shells all over the place.

Thanks again for taking the time to help a newbie.

Fred:.
 
One common misunderstanding in this hobby is that you want zero nitrates and phosphates. In fact, in the 1990s and 2000s that's what we shot for, then learned we really want those parameters to be inline with the chart Ned posted above.

How to lower nitrates? There are several ways that can help reduce nitrates:

- water changes
- installing a refugium
- various nitrate reducing additives such as Red Sea NO3 : PO4-X Nitrate & Phosphate Reducer
- nitrate removal resin such as Brightwell Aquatics NitratR or Blue Life USA Nitrate FX
- nitrate removal pads such as IceCap or Seapora nitrate removal pads

That said, I've never used the last three in the list. I use bi-weekly water changes and have a 15 gallon refugium on a 40 gallon reef. In fact, with the water changes and refugium, I actually have to add nitrate to maintain it in the range listed in the chart above.

​

 
Really high nitrates will kill clean up crew members. I use Hanna checkers myself. They are small digital readers for tests.

The standard answer for most tank ills is water changes.
As for the rest. Do the tests and come back with exactly what you are dealing with. With a 200gallon rank you would be wise to invest in a RODI filter and make your own water unless you are on a well and then that can go from okay to difficult depending on the source water. I purchased and brought home water until I got a 30 gallon tank and that became a heavy proposition moving 32 pound boxes of water 10 at a time. Then I started making my own with a filter I attached to the kitchen sink once a week.
 
Well I tested for copper - None
Ammonia N3 N4 - zero

Now what? From every test I've ran it seems like the water is in good shape.

ORP came up a little to 280 - the digital tester is in the filter tank after the filter, there is not way to put it in the tank itself because of the design. Maybe that is causing a lower reading. It's right after the bio media ball chamber, not even sure if I am saying it right lol
 
What digital tester are you using? I might have missed that if posted it before.

How long has the tank been setup and running?

How did you acclimate the fish, cleanup crew and anemones?

Like Ned I'd also be interested in where you're getting a Salinity 3.19 % test result. Ned and I have been in the hobby a really long time and neither of us have ever seen salinity expressed as a percentage.

Honestly, if you're only concerned about the ORP at this point (and you're not introducing ozone) I wouldn't worry about the ORP levels.

I don't regularly test my tanks. I observe the fish, corals and inverts. If something seems off, I then test. Why you might ask, many hobbyists (myself included) fall into the trap of "chasing water parameter numbers." What do I mean by this? There is some leeway in what is tolerable for our tank inhabitants as evidenced by the chart posted upthread by Ned. If you start trying to achieve the "perfect" water parameters, you're going to constantly be changing things and disrupting the balance...causing stress for the inhabitants.

IMO, the only things I'd be concerned about from your very first post in this thread are:
1. Your salinity/specific gravity 1.021 is a bit low. If you're going to bring it up, do it slowly and don't dump salt directly into the aquarium, instead mix a higher salinity water, 1.028 for example and slowly add it to the tank over time until you reach a target salinity of 1.023 - 1.026.
2. Your temp is a little low, turn your heaters up to get to 76-80. FWIW - I keep my reefs between 80-82 ;)
 
Thanks guys. I think at one point my salinity might have been too high, that might have contributed to the death of the snails, when I added the clean up crew - I just put the bag in the water for a couple hours, got the temp right and tossed them in - more than likely this is the reason (y'all are gonna say"DUH"). That said they seemed to be just fine for a couple weeks before they started disappearing. I have a smaller tank I am using to save fish that are "picked on" and I have couple crabs and snails in it and they are doing fine, the water is from the bigger tank.

One more thing I am having trouble figuring out is how often to feed Anemones...should I be feeding them by using the plankton juice in the water, reef blizzard protein, or small pieces of shrimp? I have one that seems to be going good - but the two i've had in the small tank just shrink down to nothing and die. Could I be over feeding them?

The smart monitor I bought is Kactoily Smart Aquarium Monitor. Water Monitor

I'm thinking of trying to get some larger crabs so I can keep an eye on them - it's nearly impossible though because I have so much live rock in there they can hide anywhere.

Anyway all the help is very much appreciated. BTW I have been buying my fish from Petco and saltwaterfish.com any other preferred places?

Oh and one more thing - there are some scratched on the inside of my aquarium that are bugging me, you can't see them from 5 feet but up close you sure can. I saw a guy online use a magnetic scrapper with various sandpaper grains to remove the scratches while the fish were still in the tank....what are y'alls thoughts about that?

Thanks again guys - Really helps to have some input when you are getting started in a new hobbie -

If you ever need any help with Guitars, Amps, Sound Reinforcemebt, or anything that flies, please let me know
 
Never heard of the Kactoily monitor before. Interesting.

Inverts are more susceptible to changes in salinity than fish. When acclimating them, I float the bag for 30 minutes, add a bit of tank water, float another 20-30 minutes, add more tank water, etc to slowly equalize the parameters (salinity, pH, etc).

What kind of anemone(s) have you tried to keep? Anemones can be extremely challenging for new hobbyist to keep, especially in a recently setup tank. Generally, I recommend not trying to keep an anemone until the tank has been established for around a year. This does two things, it ensure the tank parameters are stable and it gives the new hobbyist time to understand how to correctly maintain the tank.

How are you makin up for evaporation? When water evaporates from the tank, the salt remains. In other words, that salinity/SG increase as water evaporates. So, when topping off for evaporation, you want to use non-salt water.

I just noticed that you stated you're using distilled water for water changes. Some (if not all) distilled water is made by distiller that utilizes copper pipes. Copper is very toxic to inverts. That might explain the die off of the cleaning crew. I would recommend, if your budget allows, getting a reverse osmosis/deionization ("RODI")unit to make your own pure water.

Also, what kind of salt are you using?

Is your tank a glass or acrylic tank? If glass, it will be virtually impossible to remove he scratches. If it's acrylic, you can use a scratch removal kit to remove them.

saltwaterfish.com has had both good and bad reviews over the years. I have personally never used them. If wanting to order livestock mail order, I'd check out our sponsors.

Petcos can be hit or miss for livestock. It all depends on the person running their aquarium department. I have two that I go to on a fairly regular basis. The one closest to my house has limited livestock and will have nice, healthy livestock one week and the next the livestock will look terrible and be in poor health. The other one, has a fantastic fish manager and always has large selection of livestock that is very healthy.

If you have one in your area, I'd see if you can find a dedicated local fish store ("LFS") that specializes in saltwater aquariums.
 
Last edited:
Regarding he Katoily, I find these reviews a bit concerning...

Salinity and SG aren't accurate on the tester. Very disappointing. It is reading 2.63 for salinity what it's 3.5. And, it's saying 1.017 SG.

This is a great concept as the other monitors that do the same thing are far more expensive. But then you realize why there is a difference in price. This monitor does not seem like the parts are engineered for saltwater. It is evident that the sensors degrade VERY quickly as you only get accurate readings for the first few days and then find yourself having to constantly clean, and recalibrate the sensor. I'm nearly positive this is due to corrosion from the saltwater. The app seems great and it would have been cool to see this unit actually work as intended as it is a great concept. If you just have freshwater this may be a better value but I just can't recommend this for marine aquariums.

This was a great idea, but used in a saltwater tank was great the first few DAYS. However it quickly started reporting 30% decreases in salinity that I triple checked. It constantly loses values and never stay static in its findings. Even if you recalibrate it will just continuously go off from the baseline.

Have you checked the probe to make sure it's not corroded? When was the last time you calibrated the monitor?

I would double check your salinity using a refractometer.
 
Great feedback guys - Thank you so much.

I tested for Copper and I am good there, zero copper. I am using no-salt distilled water to compensate for evaporation. I also have a mechanical salinity tester, seems to be just a little higher than the digital water meter readings. The digital meter is less than a week old, so it should be fine, it comes calibrated out of the box, but has proceedures to recalibrate. It claims to be suitable for salt-water, but we will see. I'll let you know what I find out. I have had three Anemones the Condylactis purple seems to be doing ok ...although sometimes I think it's sick of my large clownfish that is always messing with him, but I've had two other anemones that didn't make it - both white condylactis.

I do not have a water supply near close enough to the tank to put in an automatic RODI system - but if you can reccomend one I can use elsewhere in the house that would keep me from stocking up on Distilled water all the time.

I'll definitely try some fish from our sponsor here -

Why biggest bitch is the growth of the brown algea on the bottom sand and on the sides - freaking have to scrape the tank every freaking week.

Thanks again for all the advice


​

 
Condys can sometimes be difficult, but are generally fairly hardy anemones. It they are very white, they could have lost their zooxanthellae (symbiotic algae) and that could be the source of their demise. Condys are carnivorous and you can feed small ocean fish (whole or pieces depending on the size), shrimp and other ocean based meaty food. Feeding a couple times a week should be sufficient. On another note, Condys are from the Caribbean and, therefore, don't naturally host clownfish. So, that's likely why it's not happy with the clown.

I have my RODI setup in the room behind my tank (currently re-doing the basement for a tank upgrade and building of a fish room). I had to run about 10' of RODI tubing from my nearest water source (the washing machine tap) to where my RODI unit is. Then, I have a Brute trashcan on a shelf I built with 2x2's. I keep the trashcan full of RODI water so, I always have some on hand. I also installed a bulkhead in the bottom on the trashcan and connected it with a float valve in my sump using RODI Tubing. This way, I don't have to manually top off for evaporation. When the float valve lowers, RODI flows into the sump. This also helps keep the salinity/SG stable.

On the algae your are fighting, it's typical for new tanks to go through what we call the ugly stage as the tank matures. During this stage it's not unusual for all kinds of algae to appear in the tank. If you're not seeing nitrates and phosphates showing up on your tests, it's likely because that algae is consuming those nutrients. The ugly stage can last varying lengths of time from weeks to months depending on various factors. Best thing to do, IMO, regular, weekly water changes of 10-20% of the system volume.
 
One thing I would like to add, there is no ONE correct way to have a successful reef tank. We all do things a little different with success. Some people claim you have to have a protein skimmer, others have great success without one, while others only use a skimmer occasionally.

What works great for one person may lead to total failure for another. You just have to SLOWLY try things out and see what works best for you. That's why you'll get different answers to your questions ;) The key is to go slow, take your time and don't try to correct too many things at once.
 
George,

Much appreciated - Sounds like you have an amazing system. Yeah I have a protein skimmer although I had a hellava time with that, had to modify it because it was too tall to fit under the aquarium, but it's working grabbing a ton of gunk. Thanks for the info on the Anemone -I will certainly focus on meet rather than the liquid protein. I was getting conflicting info from the PetCo lady so I wasn't sure what I was doing, but thanks for the advice, I'll follow it.

I'm having fun with the tank and certainly learning alot - it looks pretty good, but the algea pisses me off, That is why I want to buy another clean up crew - but just don't want to blow another $300 until I know they aren't going to Puke in two weeks.

Thanks again for all the help and advice I'll give you an update in a couple weeks.
 
I used to make RODI in the kitchen once a week. I unscrewed the sink aerator and attached an adapter in its place. But that was for a 75 gallon tank at most.
With 200 gallons you will need several hours to make water. Mine is a 150 gallon a day and yes there are bigger ones but the price upfront and for recharges goes up too.
Mine is automatic now, but that is done by my Hydros controller and some solenoid valves. Same old filter.

I have always run my systems with a swing arm hydrometer. A cheap plastic thing. Calibrate it once and draw a line with a sharpie and it will be fine until you die. Drop it and it is fine. Loose it in the sump and it is fine.
If it is wrong it's because it's got an air bubble in it, reads too high and that is obvious. Knock it on something and it now reads right.
Beats the heck out of me why anyone would use anything else.

Forget ORP. It is derivative in your tank and is what it is. You have to know the vaslues of other stuff in the water. Those have been mentioned.

One thing I would like to add,

there is no ONE correct way to have a successful reef tank. We all do things a little different with success.
I hate seeing this.

It's a heck of a lot easier if you start out copying something that works 90% of the time than making it up as you go.
Sorry.
 
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