Marine Aquarium Trade Dying Out?

[MitchSutherland]

Hello long time, no post! I have been out of the aquarium game for about 4-5 years. Starting to get that itch again.

When I left yellow tangs were $30-$40. Hepatus $50-$70. Black ice clowns $50-$75.

I am simply looking at getting back into the hobby. However, I am simply reaching out to see if it’s worth it to get back in? Are fish much more difficult to find? Minimal shops left. Laws in Hawaii killing the trade eventually?

I do not want to get back in if this is honestly the case. Thoughts? Concerns? Opinions? Thank you in advance!

 

[Reefing102]

Welcome back! As with most things, prices have skyrocketed, thanks in no part to collection bans but in general. Captive bred yellow tangs will run about $170ish. Wild caught are generally significantly more expensive (around $300ish?). Hawaii is rumored to be opening back up aquarium trade to I think 8 species of fish but that’s still being fought in court. Blue tangs are pushing $120-$140 and I think the clowns are about the same (haven’t looked recently).

That said, definitely not a dying hobby in my opinion, but perhaps research what fish you want to see about their status. If they are native only to Hawaii, good luck currently. There’s really no other bans I can think of off the top that weren’t already in place or being discussed (like live rock bans and such).

Now local shops do seem more scarce however the online trade is booming. Plenty to choose from, you just need to account for shipping.

 

[MitchSutherland]

Welcome back! As with most things, prices have skyrocketed, thanks in no part to collection bans but in general. Captive bred yellow tangs will run about $170ish. Wild caught are generally significantly more expensive (around $300ish?). Hawaii is rumored to be opening back up aquarium trade to I think 8 species of fish but that’s still being fought in court. Blue tangs are pushing $120-$140 and I think the clowns are about the same (haven’t looked recently).

That said, definitely not a dying hobby in my opinion, but perhaps research what fish you want to see about their status. If they are native only to Hawaii, good luck currently. There’s really no other bans I can think of off the top that weren’t already in place or being discussed (like live rock bans and such).

Now local shops do seem more scarce however the online trade is booming. Plenty to choose from, you just need to account for shipping.

Thank you for the response! My absolutely favorite fish was Achilles tang which I still see are available, but simply $100 dollars more(used to be 199.00 at the Petco!)

Bulk reef supply was on the rise of popularity via YouTube and was a great resource. As was Liveaquaira in popularity. They both still growing and doing big things? Who are the big dogs now for online fish buying?

 

[mtnbike101]

BRS is one of my favorites along with FishTanksDirect and SaltWaterFish.com.

I've used LiveAquaria in the past with no issues. My most recent order was with Dr Reefs and will be arriving soon. They are a sponsor here on RC and often offer discounts.

 

[VWD]

The hobby is going strong and will be for many years to come. Prices have definitely gone up. As far as yellow tangs going from 30 or 40 bucks isn’t a bad thing. Higher prices will make people think before buying. Yellow tangs are the perfect example. They were one of the most popular fish and at 30 dollars everyone was buying which in turn help cause overfishing which led up to the band.
Just my take

 

[Reefing102]

Thank you for the response! My absolutely favorite fish was Achilles tang which I still see are available, but simply $100 dollars more(used to be 199.00 at the Petco!)

Bulk reef supply was on the rise of popularity via YouTube and was a great resource. As was Liveaquaira in popularity. They both still growing and doing big things? Who are the big dogs now for online fish buying?

Bulk reef supply is huge. They are currently owned by a holding company (I think that’s the right term) and have aquired marine depot, Neptune, and I think Ecotech (correct me if I’m wrong here)). BRS is essentially the Amazon of the reefing world. I think they’re still big on YouTube but there’s plenty of YouTubers, insta and Pinterest reefers.

Liveaquaria is still big, but is falling in my opinion. There’s been a lot of complaints I’ve seen of the orders not being right, fish sick, diseased, etc along with cutting corners on shipping (now more of an insulated bag than a cooler, etc). Big dogs for fish I would say are @Dr. Reef, blue zoo, saltwaterfish.com, reefpro, and I’ve heard good things about some of the local divers in Florida that aquaculture rock also providing decent fish. I have not yet ordered fish from any of the above though. I’ve only ordered fish from Biota online. Great experience there. They’re one of the biggest names in captive breeding.

 

[mtnbike101]

now more of an insulated bag than a cooler

Was not aware of that change! My last order from them was in September, 2020 (had to go back and look).

 

[BeanAnimal]

BRS is one of my favorites along with FishTanksDirect and SaltWaterFish.com.

I've used LiveAquaria in the past with no issues. My most recent order was with Dr Reefs and will be arriving soon. They are a sponsor here on RC and often offer discounts.

I will second Dr. Reef - worth the nominal extra cost to get a foster fish instead of something pluck, packed and poured.

Dry goods/consumables/hardware: IMHO - BRS - being what they are now is no "deal" and the exact antithesis of why they started (bulk supplies, at bulk prices). By their very nature and size, they are partly responsible for the inflated prices. They thrive on MAP pricing and MAP pricing does not work unless vendors of their size embrace it... Leaving no alternative and skyrocketing prices. Alas, it doesn't matter, because everything sold in this niche is now MAP pricing and it really doesn't matter where you buy.

Livestock: There is also the fact that you were in the hobby during the a growth stage where numerous vendors jumped in and competed for business. Piles of stuff was imported and done so very cheaply, much of it to the detriment of where it was collected from. It went from off the radar to on the radar very quickly. Prior to that (the in the late 80's and early 90's) this was a very expensive hobby. Fish were hard to come by and very expensive. I paid $190 for a Naso Tang in 1991 and the average fish was in the $45 neighborhood, 10 $ Damselfish not withstanding. Those are directly inline with the fish prices today, give roughly 120% inflation.

So we are back to where we started livestock pricing wise. Better selection (even with restricted laws). Dry goods and hardware costs are now inline with that with MAP pricing fixing profits for manufacturers, wholesalers and resellers. The hobby is larger than it was int the late 80's and early 90's. I can't gauge where it is now compared to 10 years ago but assume it is about the same if not actually bigger.

 

[Genetics]

Mitch this hobby has undergone some change. Pricing has pushed many chain stores to no longer carry saltwater. To survive companies need to be careful on health and quality of their stock. The prices climbed so fast between 2010-2020 that every time I thought I had saved enough to get back in I’d put it off another year. Finally just took the plunge but pricing is near gouging sometimes.

Fun fact BRS was acquired by an investment fund which turned around and bought out marine depot. Then the fund went on to acquire Ecotech and Neptune. Haven’t seen any innovation since but have noticed prices cruising upward of 30-50%. Quality is also noted on the decline.

On top of this FB marketplace has become a cesspool for used equipment. I have only had one decent purchase off there which is really disheartening. I thought I was getting MP10s from cyber sales and instead they are years old and ecotech is absolutely horrible at customer care at this point. Live and learn.

 

[BeanAnimal]

When possible, use your LFS to get branded equipment, while they may have a MAP agreement, most will quietly work with you to offer a discount if you are a good customer.

When the venture firms are done gutting these companies for pure profit, they will move on and the products will disappear totally or be just more rebadged import hardware instead of iteratively innovative designs.

 

[albano]

When possible, use your LFS to get branded equipment, while they may have a MAP agreement, most will quietly work with you to offer a discount if you are a good customer.

I’ve been telling people this for many years, but most never ask for the discount and therefore never receive a discount! MAP is BS, just a fancy name for price fixing!

 

[BeanAnimal]

Correct - and most MAP agreements only have "Advertised Price" clauses to avoid legal issues associated with dictating selling prices.

Some vendors do not understand and are afraid to sell at anything but MAP prices, for fear of vendor reprisal... but most fully know that they can sell at ANY price (even a loss) if they see fit... but fall back on the "we are not allowed to change prices" BS to protect their margins and blame the manufacturer.

The other issue is that now that "MAP" pricing is the standard for so many products, companies like BRS use it to "MAP" price stuff that isn't even under a MAP sales agreement... they just jack the price of everything to match. So a major vendor raises prices by 10% a quarter, the other major vendors follow and then BRS (and others) raise EVERYTHING in the the store 10% to match. The price creep is insane and real.

The dirty secret is that the same manufacturers that dictate MAP pricing to retail customers play all kinds of pricing games with their distributors.

 

[Timfish]

Welcome! What they said.