My 65 Gallon

2_zoa

New member
Hello all,

I thought it might be fun to do a thread about my setup. This system has been a roller coaster of ups and downs. I've done a lot of experimenting on this build so, I'd say I caused most of the headache and heartache. I'm starting this thread at a time where the tank isn't in great shape. Very few coral and they are having a bit of a hard time. The tank is far from stable yet so, this thread comes a bit different then most.

I'm putting all this confusing info in here cause I hope it will help others realize that this hobby is no different then anything else. If you do it right the first time you will come out ahead cost wise, and results will be better, quicker in the long run. Trying this or that cause it's cheap or cause it will buy you time, just doesn't work. At least it hasn't for me. Not in the last 2 years this tank has been running. I wish I could say I did all this for fun. I didn't. I "thought" I could "make it work". I've learned a ton in the last 2 years.

I setup the tank on 4-16-13. I used 100% dead dry rock and dead dry sand. Partly cause I thought I was going to be a great reefer and do it "right" by QT'ing everything, period. I wanted it to be me that introduced everything to the tank as much as possible. On purpose. I got in the way and I ruined that idea real fast. :headwally: I immediately (after cycle) put stuff in without QT. I've dosed different things to try stuff out. All the while not keeping any notes on dosages or outcome. Not bright, I know.

The tank was originally setup without a sump and I had no intention of running a sump. I put in a piece of 4" PVC pipe and by placing a pump in there it acts as a low point for evap and give me surface skimming. I ran like that up till about a week ago. (I added a sump) I've also had two different canister filters on the tank at two different times. For flow, the tank has had a trio of MJ-1200's, a pair of MP10's, a mix of MP10's and cheap Aqua Top power heads, And now, has a pair of Jeabo RW4's with 2 Aqua Top 300ish GPH power heads. The pump for the new, above the tank sump is a MJ-1200. I've run with no skimmer, a DIY air stone skimmer, an old Red Sea prizm skimmer, and for the last year, year and half (till about a week ago) a Reef Octo BH-1000 HOB skimmer.

SO, this is where I'm at.
The tank is an Aqueion standard 65 gallon tank. It has a 4" PVC pipe to act as a sump and skim the water surface. There is a MJ-1200 pump inside feeding a 20L overhead sump that is in a closet on the other side of the wall that the tank is in front of.
A FTS showing the lighting and the pipes going through the wall.


The PVC pipe (in tank sump) with the old Reef Octo skimmer. The black piece with clear tubing is my Tsunami ATO.


This is my new sump area. It's just a closet in a spare bedroom. The sump stand is 50 3/8" tall.


My sump setup. The air manifold is some stuff I had kicking about. Collecting stuff over the years. I bought the skimmer from a LFS. He builds tanks and what not and he builds air stone skimmers. I'm a HUGE fan of air stone skimmers. I'm not crazy about the flat topped body of this one but, hey. It works. It's being driven by an Alita 25M air pump. The current air stone is a boss hog ceramic stone.


This is about what I like to see for skim color. This is after 33 hrs.


This is after about 55 hrs. Pics never do justice. The skimmer is 8" in diameter. The amount of skim in there is about 20oz or so.


A close up of the air manifold. The temp gauge is for fun and, I figured that some instruments to let me know what exactly is going on with my skimmer would be awesome. I now know at a glance what is wrong if anything, with my skimmer. If I see manifold pressure drop or go up, I can look at that. If I see the flow rate go down, I can increase the pressure to compensate for the air stone becoming plugged up. I can then decide when I want to clean the stone based on a max back pressure I want to impose on my air pump.


This is just a quick video of the sump. Yes, it's this quiet. The air pump is in my garage and the air line is run through the attic. The extra air is being blown off into the attic also.



The tank has
2 black and white clowns
1 red line wrasse
2 cardinal fish
1 bi color blenny
1 blue spot jaw fish

Xenia
red monti cap
3 colines of zoas
green star polyps
red chalice
green enchino
frogspawn
hammer coral
gorgonian
toadstool

Any comments, questions, concerns are welcome.

Cheers :beer:
Stay dry


Edit; Please let me know if the video plays well. For me its choppy. My internet must be bogged down??? Thanks
 
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I just emptied the collection cup. 3 days worth. The beauty of an air stone skimmer is I can tweak the skimmer any way I want to. More or less air, more or less flow (contact time), higher or lower water height. All separately from each other. No other skimmer can do that.


Also, I have an air filter on the air line. I've got carbon and sodalime, cause I have it.
 
A couple tank shots. My camera is just not a very good one.


I also have a bottle in the tank for PaulB.:thumbsup:







My zoas




My Blue Spot was being bold tonight.

 
Wow... you're mister handyman. I like that... watch out with coper pipe near salt..copper wil corode ab is very toxic in for i invertebrates

Where do you reside?
 
Wow... you're mister handyman. I like that... watch out with coper pipe near salt..copper wil corode ab is very toxic in for i invertebrates

Where do you reside?

It's good to see you made it. Sorry I'm late in a response.

Yea, I don't "think" the copper will be an issue. I made sure it was against the wall (pretty close) and the sump is away a couple inches. Any drips if any water should splash up on it should drip onto the stand behind the sump. I used the word should a couple times there. Haha. It's also the waste air line so, the tank isn't seeing any air that has run through the copper line.

I'm in Washington state. Near Seattle.
 
So, I have a skimmer question.

I've never had a skimmer this over sized on a tank before. I "think" it's doing a good job at cleaning up my tank. Issues I've had in the past (cyano and some sort of algae?) are having a little more trouble at the moment. I'm also noticing the air bubbles getting larger inside the skimmer. That is where my question stems from.

With a reduction of DOC, will bubble formation become difficult to the point of larger bubbles? I don't have a needle wheel choping up the air.

I think I know that with an abundonce of DOC in a tank, micro bubbles can be an issue. So, is the reverse true? Given the instrumentation I've put in place, I can say that neither pressure or flow rate has changed. Just the bubble size and a slowing down of the skimmer. Maybe the ceramic stone is having issues?
 
I think I should add,

I do not dose carbon source anymore. Haven't for some time now. The cyano that is/was in the tank is appearing to be slowly disappearing. Also what I meant in my original first post about my corals not doing well is. They are very pale in color and if I don't dose an ammino acid (currently dosing Elos Omega) they remain pale no matter how much food I add it seems, and I will slowly loose the coral. This has however kept the Xenia I added at bay and it too is disappearing. I'm using it as a guage as to what the nutrient levels are. PO4 wise anyway.
 
Thanks Glenn. Yea, I was hesitant to use this stone due to the bubble size. However these new bubbles are quite large. A little smaller then a pea size. It has plenty of smaller bubbles but these larger ones bother me.


I've seen your video before. Your skimmer defiantly chuggs up the junk. Do you have any pics of your manifold? I've planned from the beginning to build a manifold and switch over to wood. This stone was just to hold me over till I got around to it. I was willing to sacrifice bubble size for a while but these large bubbles are just not good.
 
the bubbles from ceramix stones are larger than from wood.
the wood one wil become larger in time but than it's time to replace them.


watch this movie how to tune a (my) wood driven skimmer.
https://youtu.be/L9ttg276RCw
what are your po4 and No3 levels ?

I think I should add,

I do not dose carbon source anymore. Haven't for some time now. The cyano that is/was in the tank is appearing to be slowly disappearing. Also what I meant in my original first post about my corals not doing well is. They are very pale in color and if I don't dose an ammino acid (currently dosing Elos Omega) they remain pale no matter how much food I add it seems, and I will slowly loose the coral. This has however kept the Xenia I added at bay and it too is disappearing. I'm using it as a guage as to what the nutrient levels are. PO4 wise anyway.
 
what are your no3 an po4 levels and do you measure any other parameter.
what lighting are you using.
 
what are your no3 an po4 levels and do you measure any other parameter.
what lighting are you using.

Big post warning......

I'm running LED fixtures. They currently peak at Ch1 50% and Ch2 40%
I have these fixtures. I've had them since 11-16-13. I got them before I found out about this article.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2014/2/review

I just tested and got,

KH=9.5-10
CA=400
Mg=1350

No3=0-.1
This is a guess. I use Salifert for nitrate test and looking through the side it wasn't pink enough to register .2 there was a very, very small hint of color but it is below the test ability. I usually always see the test at .2-.5 so I'm a little shocked to see it this low. I also dosed No3 a couple weeks ago. I got the tank up to 2.5 and it's now back down. Looks like I should dose again.

Po4=0
I use the low range Hanna checker (the 713 model) I've thought about getting the ULR model but I don't really know that it will be any better. I know folks say it's much more accurate. However, the test column is still the same width as the low range tester. I have some of SeaChem flourish Po4 I could dose the tank with.

Here are just some shots of the tank. Maybe they're helpful?

My Xenia on 10-1-14.


My Xenia now. 8 months in my tank. Not exactly growing out of control.



This is the skimmer on 5-31-15. So 4 days after my last pic of the skimmer cup.


Now the skimmer has slowed down. It has now been 7 days of running.


These are shots of the cyano that was in the tank. It was actually worse then this. As I noticed it going away I decided to take a couple pics.




Now I did a 3 gallon water change on 6-3-15 and I siphoned out what I could. This is now how those areas look as of this morning.


 
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This is now how the FTS looks as of this morning.




Edit; I'm running a really white light for photos now. I don't keep the tank this white in color. My cheap camera will just wash out and the pics would be even worse if you could believe that. HaHa
 
I'm wondering if I'm feeding enough food? As I mentioned in my first post, I have 7 fish. The wrasse, bi-color blennie, and the blue spot are about 3" long and the others fall into the 2"ish mark.

I make my food in a large shot glass. I put in 2 cubes of spiralina brine and 2 cubes of mysis, both from hikari. I fill the glass with RO/DI to the line. I will sometimes put in other stuff but this is the base that I feed at a minimum. I feed 9-12 ml of this each night. Again, I don't carbon dose any more. Is this enough?
 
My tank is having issues. I've been on a few vacation trips and the tank has taken a hit from neglect. I've got cyano growth in the sand bed and my corals have all just about bleached. The tissue on my red chalice is receding. I'm not so sure the coral will recover this go around. I've done ok at being able to straighten things out before but I'm just not sure this time.

Something is and has been a miss with this tank and I just haven't found it. Maybe I'm the issue that's why I can't find it. I did tests and it's right where a reef tank should be except the phosphate. It stays udetectable on my checker. No algae issues except the cyano and the Xenia doesn't really grow. It's been in the tank for almost a year now. That stuff should be growing over the sides by now.

Any ideas? I'm happy to check what I can or answer any questions I can.
 
I would not worry too much about the skimmer. It's just running a little dryer that you are used too. I run mine on the dry side and it looks like that. The xenia like a tank that is a little on the "dirty" side. It may be that your tank is just too clean for it to spread as quickly as you would like. As for your corals receding, I'm sorry not to have a suggestion. I would have said it was a lighting issue, like old bulbs, but I'm still out of touch with LED lighting. Have you introduced and new corals that may have carried some sort of pathogen?
 
Sorry, I haven't been on.



what are your water parameters and what are you dosing? to keep them in check ?

In doing my Nitrate test I ran out of drops. So I wasn't able to complete the Nitrate test. I'll order one up here in a day or two.

I recently purchased Red Sea test kits to check against my other tests that I've been using. This is my first time using them. I like them and I don't like them.

Red Sea numbers
Kh=9.5
Mg=1740
Ca=420
The KH test is the main reason I don't like the Red Sea tests. In their video on how to perform the test, they state that it should turn pink. My test never did. I did the test twice and they both just turned more pale in blue color until it turned yellow. That is where I decided the test was done and at that point. It read that KH was 9.5. Maybe its bad or I did something wrong??

API numbers
KH=9
CA=380

Elos test
MG=1250
I'm really not sure why Red Sea and Elos tested so widely apart here? I plan on doing the Red Sea test again later on today. I plan on a small water change so I'll pull the sample before hand. I'm also gonna pull a sample from the fresh mixed water and testing that.

PO4= My Hanna checker came in at 0. It always does. I have the 713 model and I know a lot of folks don't think they're sensitive enough for a reef tank. I bought it before I read that the ULR tester is preferred.

As far as dosing. I don't dose anything but amino acids to the tank. I bought some of Red Sea's reef energy. I'm almost out and I'm gonna continue with Elos Omega ammino's. The Elos is what I used before trying the Red Sea. My coral doesn't grow so nothing is really being used up. No need to dose. I dose the amino acids cause as I stated earlier, if I don't. My coral loses all their color and die. Just like whats happening now. I've been gone and the tank hasn't been dosed. So things are dieing now. I can't think of any other reason. The amino's is what has brought back my coral every time they have started to die.

The tank has always shown zero PO4 on my checker. The tank USED to be high in NO3 all the time. Then it flipped and it now is always on the bottom end of the NO3. Maybe my NO3 test went bad and I took that as getting a hold of the issue. However, when I dosed NO3 to correct the low reading (I would boost it up to a reading of 2.5-5ppm) on the test. It would take a few days to a week to use up the NO3 that I dosed.



I would not worry too much about the skimmer. It's just running a little dryer that you are used too. I run mine on the dry side and it looks like that. The xenia like a tank that is a little on the "dirty" side. It may be that your tank is just too clean for it to spread as quickly as you would like. As for your corals receding, I'm sorry not to have a suggestion. I would have said it was a lighting issue, like old bulbs, but I'm still out of touch with LED lighting. Have you introduced and new corals that may have carried some sort of pathogen?

Thank you for your response. I can't really say if it's the lighting or not either. This tank has never done well so I can't say if the lights work or not. I've seen these lights work on another tank. They work well IMO. I believe I have other issues then the lights on this tank. It's the first tank I've ever started from a sterile state. I used dry rock and dry sand when I stated this tank. Something I wanted to try and experience. Maybe that's why I have all the issues. It's just now starting to mature?

Putting all the issues I've had with this tank aside. I always think that it isn't dirty enough. My frogspwan hasn't really grown since I put it in the tank. The hammer hasn't grown and it turned pale a week or two after it went in the tank. The gorgonian and the toadstool hasn't shed on a regular basis until I began feed the tank phyto daily. One of the zoa colonies hasn't grown any new heads until recently. Recently I started dosing Red Sea's reef energy (a little after the phyto) cause I wanted to try it. I'm just about out of it now as I only bought the small bottles. I'm not sure I'm going to purchase anymore right now. I think I'm going to just keep up the phyto and see how things go.
 
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