Mysterious ich-like fish killer. Please help

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BrownPoseidon

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I currently have a 20 gallon long tank with a menagerie of corals 5 months old. Caulastrea, fungia, euphyllia, trachophyllia, seriotapora, montipora, galaxia, some kinda chalice, turbinadaria chalice, 2 mini acanthastreas, a favid colony, dying alveopora, couple zoanthid colonies, couple stalks of pulse xenias, couple patches of green star polyps, a couple sympodium polyp stalks, and these weird polyps called indonesian snake polyps online. All corals (besides alveo which never comes out anymore) have been doing very well seem to be growing noticably. When i first set up this tank with all these corals i purchased a big (3-4 inches)starry algae blenny, a big (3-4 inches) sand sifting diamond goby, and a tiny (1 inch) tomato clown fish.
I noticed after a month or so a white spot would appear on his fin for example and then fall off within a day or less. In different places this would happen for the next 2 or 3 months but it seemed to go away. On fins, his body, even his eyeball looked sketchy for a while but it always seemed to lose the white spot. Then one day the algae blenny turned up dead. I never saw white spots on this guy. Very next day tomato clown was dead with only a spot or two although he seemed to deteriorate in energy for a day or two prior to death. Next day my last fish the sand blenny looks haggard with white spots on fins when he appeared spot free and vibrant the previous day. Next day he succumbs to mystery disease and dies.
So I get sad and decide to never keep fish again. 2 months solid pass and im pumped because my corals seem to be established and growing. My buddy calls about 3 days ago telling me hes giving away a tomato so i naturally take it thinking that whatever parasite/pathogen/fishmurderer killed my fishes has died off after a month with no host. Fish gets a NICE acclimation session and since this 1 1/4 inch tomato lived for a month or two in a 10 gallon i figured it would enjoy the upgrade to well maintained water parameter 20 gallon. After a day i notice a white spot on fin then it disappears. Next day white 1 milimeter long spot/raised scratch on lower body near tail with a tiny white filament coming off it. That too falls off or heals. Next day it has a white bump on lip. Today is the day the spot on his lip appeared.
Am i about to lose another tomato??? Has this happened to anyone before?? Why is there still a disease type thing in my tank after 2 months no vertebrates??? Is this typical??? Someone please enlighten me or drops knowledge on me or just talk about similar experiences or anything that could possibly help or interest me. Thank you i'm new to forums. Only creatures ive had besides fish are 7 sexy shrimp, 2 dwarf zebra hermit crabs, 5 blue leg hermit crabs, 4 red leg hermit crabs, 2 bumblebee snails, 1 turbo snail, and a large population of breeding stomatella snails
 
Tried to stick with your long post; too much going on at home today. In skimming the post; it seems like you hesitate to keep fish because of parasites, right? Why not use a QT?
 
I was really hoping that 10 weeks of no fish would kill it off. Fish was asymptomatic for 4 months at least in two previous tanks. Could i have a permanent parasite?
 
There's no such thing as "permanent" parasites. Parasites are living organisms and need food to survive. Without fish they will all die one-by-one. The chance of any parasite surviving after a 10-week fallow time is very, very unlikely (only about 0.3%).

As MrTusk and snorvich said, it's much more likely that your new tomato clown brought in new ich. From your description, it sounded like you put the fish straight into DT without QT. I would suggest that you QT this fish and treat it (and all new fish in the future) to prevent this from happening again. Unfortunately, your 20g DT needs another 10-week fallow time to eradicate the new ich. You sound like a patient person though.
 
I'm no expert, but are you sure this is ich? There are literally thousands of possible things it could be. Can you get a white speck and get a microscope on it? What if it's an isopod? There's no way to quantify that a 10 week fallow period works for things other than ich or brook, because we simply don't know everything about every white speck that appears on fish.
The most likely specks are ich and brook, I agree there, but what if it was just sand? What if you actually have a leaching chemical (some metal perhaps?) that is killing your fish?
I know, a lot of what ifs, but then again you can't confirm the ich diagnosis yet. What you're describing didn't sound like ich to me.
 
sandwi54 said:
There's no such thing as "permanent" parasites. Parasites are living organisms and need food to survive. Without fish they will all die one-by-one. The chance of any parasite surviving after a 10-week fallow time is very, very unlikely (only about 0.3%).
Click to expand...

You've obviously have never taken a course in Parasitology because if you had you wouldn't have made such a broad statement as that. Many parasites have life stages that can go in to stasis for long periods of time, up to years, when lacking a host. It is however generally accpeted, but still contested by some, that Ich in a fallow tank will have completed all it life stages in 2 months and thus will not reappear unless brought in from an outside source.
 
Rockys_Pride said:
I'm no expert, but are you sure this is ich? There are literally thousands of possible things it could be. Can you get a white speck and get a microscope on it? What if it's an isopod? There's no way to quantify that a 10 week fallow period works for things other than ich or brook, because we simply don't know everything about every white speck that appears on fish.
The most likely specks are ich and brook, I agree there, but what if it was just sand? What if you actually have a leaching chemical (some metal perhaps?) that is killing your fish?
I know, a lot of what ifs, but then again you can't confirm the ich diagnosis yet. What you're describing didn't sound like ich to me.
Click to expand...

Good point. IMO, ich is often mis-diagnosed. Often it turns out to be nothing, other times its something much worse. (Like velvet.) Being able to identify common parasites isn't difficult; it just takes a little research.
 
Hmm i will definitely be QTing my fish from now on thank you.
Is there a way to accurately distinguish cryptocaryon from brookanella from velvet with the naked eye??? Can my fish beat this without being removed??? Has anyone ever had a fish analyzed after death????
thanks for the discussion guys i love this ish but i hate this ich
 
kzooreefer said:
You've obviously have never taken a course in Parasitology because if you had you wouldn't have made such a broad statement as that. Many parasites have life stages that can go in to stasis for long periods of time, up to years, when lacking a host. It is however generally accpeted, but still contested by some, that Ich in a fallow tank will have completed all it life stages in 2 months and thus will not reappear unless brought in from an outside source.
Click to expand...

Ich has shown to last longer than two months. I don't know if there is a time when 100% certainty is reached; but 10-12 weeks sure is close. Good reading:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2041951
 
kzooreefer said:
You've obviously have never taken a course in Parasitology because if you had you wouldn't have made such a broad statement as that. Many parasites have life stages that can go in to stasis for long periods of time, up to years, when lacking a host. It is however generally accpeted, but still contested by some, that Ich in a fallow tank will have completed all it life stages in 2 months and thus will not reappear unless brought in from an outside source.
Click to expand...

why would I take a course in parasitology? I am an engineer!

I was just talking about ich and not all parasites. My bad for not being specific. I am aware that some parasites become dormant and can survive without hosts for a long time.
 
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