Need for clean up crew?

[jdaniels175]

I have an established aquarium, and over the years I have noticed that my snails ( never added anything else)have been disappearing. I am somewhat sure something is eating them as there is a pile of shells in one area. I was thinking of replacing them, but then I started thinking about the benefits of this and here is my question:

Given the following assumptions: No algae in tank, I don't feed very much ( only have 2 fish in a 50 gal tank), stir the sand myself, and I don't really care about having inverts ( I do like them but for the sake of argument).

Are there any benefits to a clean up crew?

My thinking is that a clean up crew isn't doing anything except creating more poop.

All thoughts/ opinions welcome.

 

[AdamSabina]

Opinion- Maybe just use brittle stars that eat poop?

 

[jdaniels175]

but then they poop too right? so what has been accomplished? ( I am asking as I admit to not being well versed in this area)

 

[tanked37]

but then they poop too right? so what has been accomplished? ( I am asking as I admit to not being well versed in this area)

Lots is accomplished. It's called the food chain and it goes all the way down to bacteria. So diversity in your tank is good. You don't have to go crazy like some do with 100's of snails. Definitely get nassrius (sp) snails, maybe they can hide effectively enough in the sand to not get eaten.

 

[AdamSabina]

but then they poop too right? so what has been accomplished? ( I am asking as I admit to not being well versed in this area)

But if they are eating poop they have to be using it for energy so I think they would help lower nutrients.

 

[Reef Frog]

From the perspective of nutrient export, CUC members like snails only sequester nutrients for a certain period of time. Upon their death & decomposition, or being eaten, they then release the same nutrients back into the system.

Nutrients only permanently disappear by removing stuff from the tank. Like removing a dead carcass, physically removing detritus, algae, uneaten food, skimming bacterial flocks & dissolved organics, or capturing nutrients with GFO, GAC or other medias & tossing them out when exhausted. Water changes too.

But they are beneficial by keeping algae, diatoms etc well groomed & I agree they make for a more diverse ecosystem. And they are often very interesting creatures in their own right.

 

[mr.maroonsalty]

I'm not a fan of large life forms that I don't need. I don't think having a large stock of starving snails has a lot of positive benefits. What would be nice however, is a reproducing population of detrivores that waxes and wains per the needs of the tank. A handful of species of snails can do that, the different pods and stars do too. It seems most logical the further a nutrient source can be used and broken down as energy then the less waste will remain. When an animal eats, then reproduces the nutients are moved to positive locked up forms of energy. When an animal dies, it's then removed or most likely consumed by another creature, bacteria and solid circulation hopefully remove any nutrients that aren't in use. It's not untill the death of the system as a whole does the energy that was put into and not later exported from the tank becomes a stagnet rot.

 

[HumbleFish]

I've seen lots of beautiful reef tanks with no CUC. No algae (fish will eat that), no detritus (good flow). That being said; I am a little partial to nassarius snails. You don't need to "stir the sand" if you have those, and if a fish dies/disappears they will take care of the problem long before you ever see an ammonia spike from it.

 

[FlyPenFly]

Snails eat food, snail gets larger by soaking up nutrients. If snail dies, nutrients released back.

An interesting question if the life cycle of the snail just ends up producing more nutrients.

 

[mr.maroonsalty]

In my tank a snail dies fish, fire worm, pods, bacteria...eat it!

 

[Epicreefer]

Some kind of animal that will eat leftover food is nice to have. Some use snails and hermits, some use hitchhikers like bristle worms. I prefer to go the more natural route with hitchhikers and because I see a lot of fresh live rock I run into enough to stock my tan, a lot accumulates in the 1/2" of water at the bottom of the tub. Pistol shrimp, small unidentified prawns, typical reef shrimp spagetti worms and starfish make up most of it. I don't have a crab or snail but around 20 mini(<1") shrimp from 6+ species instead. Interestingly enough I pulled a foot long worm out of a rock today, that didn't go in my tank... I also don't like bristle worms much because sometimes they are fireworms that eat corals. Snails seem to be the hardest to keep, long term I would go with crustaceans.

 

[Fail_sh3d]

I think it all depends on the tank owner.

I have a pistol, 2 peppermint shrimp, 1 blue leg hermit, and 4 trochus snails...

The shrimp (all of them) and the snails are the only ones I think do any good. I had about 6-7 red and blue leg hermits and now am left with one. I personally don't think I will be replacing the hermits, as I don't really think they were that effective as cleanup.

 

[mikecc67548]

wanes = slow death by starvation

 

[Arkayology]

Just add a bunch of bristle worms for you tank if you don't have any already. They will self regulate their population, eat algae/detritus/left over food, and are free!

 

[IowaReefer]

The invisible/ very tiny creatures in your tank, along with you, make the best cleanup crew. If you NEED hermits to eat extra food on the sandbed and rocks, you are feeding too much; if you NEED snails to keep your algae garden under control, you have a nutrient problem, most likely caused by overfeeding or cycling.

I keep a couple blue leg hermit crabs and a coral banded shrimp around because I find them interesting and a sand sifting starfish to move my sand bed around occasionally, but have not had a store-bought snail in years. If you see some detritus lying around, just vacuum it up during the next water change, your CUC isn't going to touch it anyway.

Personally, I think all the "clean-up crew packs" and calculators are just gimmicks to get you to spend more money on stuff you don't need. There are far cooler ways to spend your money! Just my 2 cents.

 

[ReeferBatman]

but then they poop too right? so what has been accomplished? ( I am asking as I admit to not being well versed in this area)

Each organism uses the 'food' to their potential, and leaves less for the next creature down the line.

Most of that energy taken, is then spent in the form of kinetic energy (moving around the tank) or growth (cell reproduction) or in other forms like body heat + functions...

That the energy is being used in those manners, instead of just sitting around causing pollution, results in a healthier tank.

Ideally, you want enough creatures that will diversify and take up each 'niche' in the ecosystem, but a lot of people go waaay overboard and get tons of un-needed and unsustainable cleanup crew.

In my 55g, I have a few shrimp, 1 nassarius (sp) snail in my tank, amongst bristle worms, brittle-stars, "Pods" of all sorts, and plenty of small tubeworms and "peanut worms". And they cleanup after a VERY heavy bio-load (I have a lot of fish + corals in my system!)

So if you only have 2 fish in there, you may not create enough bioload to support/sustain my 'cleanup crew'.

Find your own balance.

:thumbsup:

*Edit:

Every tank truly is an eco-system that balances itself for the most part. For example, when I introduced brittle-stars into the equation, my bristleworm population dropped by about half... because they occupy a similar 'niche' in the ecosystem... Regardless of creatures you have in each 'niche', the total system will only support so much depending on your food/fish bio-load 'input'...

And to an extent, the more niches you have filled, the more 'capable' your system of properly 'digesting' the food /bio-load (because it utilizes that much more of otherwise deteriorating food which would result in degrading water quality). Each niche is but a level in a many, many pronged ladder down to our 'good bacteria' - on which the entire cycle depends!

It is true that when creatures die, however, they then release their CURRENT bio-mass (not total accumulated/spent bio-mass or energy ) back into the system. But each creature uses that much more of the 'total energy' before it dies (further removing energy/pollution from the system). And, the more diverse/plentiful your system's niches, the better it 'digests' the excess food/energy from the tank (using it for movement/growth/heat, etc.).


Each tank is a closed system that tries to keep in balance and check with itself, along with our human 'input' + 'output'... (feeding, WC/dosing)