Need LED layout help

[daplatapus]

Ok, I'm finally working on my own LED build to go over my 210 gal. Foot print is 72" long, 24" front to back and 28" tall. After the sand bed is in there will be around 26" water depth. Lights will be hung probably 10"-12" off the surface. I want to be able to grow pretty much anything: LPS, SPS, clams... everything. Or at least I don't want my lack of light to be the cause of not being able to grow it.
I'm going to be trying to do a fairly minimal rockscaping, probably 1 or 2 islands and maybe a small sloping wall in one back corner.
The tank is eurobraced in 2 spots, leaving me 3- 22"X22" squares to hang fixtures over. What I'm thinking of doing is 3 separate fixtures like this above each hole oriented parallel to the front:

So to sum up the actual lighting parameters:
18 - Exotic 3W True violet 395-430nm wattage: 3w max drive current: 500mA forward voltage (@ 700 ma): Min 3.0v Max 3.4v

63 - Cree 3W RB XT-E max drive current: 1500mA forward voltage (@ 700 ma): 3.0

36 - Cree 3W NW XM-L max drive current: 3000mA forward voltage (@ 700 ma): 2.9

9 - Cree 3W CW XM-L max drive current: 3000mA forward voltage (@ 700 ma): 2.9

9 - Exotic 3W Ocean Coral White - voltage: 8.6v @ 500mA max drive current: 500mA

So after counting up all the individual LED's (counting 3 for the 3 up and OCW stars), in total that ends up being 153 LED's.

Is this total crazy overkill? I was not planning on putting optics on anything but I can if the consensus is I should
I really want to order up some parts, so any input would be greatly appreciated.
Oh, and this will be controlled via an Arduino controller, PWM dimming, and probably 4 channels:
Channel 1: RB's
Channel 2: OCW and TV's
Channel 3: NW's
Channel 4: CW's

 

[daplatapus]

I know it doesn't perhaps sound like I've done a lot of research and I want someone else to do it for me. But the problem is I think I've done too much reading and I'm now so confused it's not even funny. I think my eye's are starting to bleed
Please help...
Here's what I have so far and correct me if ANY of this is wrong before I electrocute myself or blow $1000 of parts up in smoke.

The drivers I'd like to use for the LED's that run under 1500mA. I'd use the LDD-1000-H for the Royal Blue 3W 1500mA LED's and the LDD-700-H for the True Violet, and Ocean Coral Whites.

Question 1) I need a separate power supply for them, right? Something that will deliver up to 56V, preferably under 48V?

http://datasheet.octopart.com/LDD-1000H-Mean-Well-datasheet-10316805.pdf

And I would use this driver for the Neutral White and Cool White 3W, 3000mA LED's. These I believe are 120V input's so I should be able to just plug them in?

http://www.meanwell.com/search/eln-60/ELN-60-spec.pdf


All these drivers will be run off of a Arduino controller supplying a 0-10V PWM signal for dimming purposes.

So in total, what I have are:

18 - Exotic True Violet 3W, 500mA 3-3.4 fV@700 mA

63 - Cree Royal Blue 3W, 1500mA 3V fV@700 mA

36 - Cree Neutral white 3W, 3000mA, 2.9 fV@700mA

9 - Cree Cool White. These have the same specs as the Neutral whites

9 - Exotic Ocean Coral White. 8.6V@500mA. These are a bit different as they have 3 - 3W LED's on one star wired in series.

3 - Cree Royal Blue 3W. These are the same as the other Royal Blue's above, but for moonlighting.

All of the 6 lines above will be on their own separate channels. I would like to keep everything under 48V. I see the LDD drivers will go up to 56V so if it works out better to run them somewhere between the 48 - 56V, I'm assuming that would be ok too?

What I think I need (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is:
For the True Violet's: 2 Parallel strings of 9 LED's each, run off of 2 - LDD-700-H drivers with a 30.6V 1400mA power supply
For the Royal Blue's: 4 Parallel strings of 15 LED's each, run off of 4 - LDD1000-H drivers with a 45V 2800mA power supply
For the Neutral Whites: 3 Parallel strings of 12 LED's each, run off of 3 ELN-60-48P drivers plugged into 120V
For the Cool Whites: 1 string of 9 LED's, run off of a ELN-60-48P driver, plugged into 120V
For the Ocean Coral Whites: 3 Parallel strings of 3 LED's each (each star has 3 LED's so that's actually 9 LED's per string) , run off of 3 - LDD-700-H drivers with a 27.6V 2100mA power supply


My head hurts. Both from trying to figure this out and from banging it on the wall. HAHA

Can anyone please, please, please confirm (or tell me where I'm going wrong) with my math?

thanks again

Dominique

 

[AMDphenomx4]

Well, the royal blues with 15 on a string won't work with a 45V power supply as the driver needs the total forward voltage + 3V to work, and the XT-E at 1000mA is more than 3V anyways. The power supply also needs to be at least 4000mA as in parallel, drivers are need the sum of the currents, which is 1000mA x 4.

 

[daplatapus]

Gah! Kill me now. :blown:
Someone want to do the honours? :deadhorse1:

 

[AMDphenomx4]

You seem to be confusing parallel and series. For the drivers you've selected, you'd run the LEDs in series for max output. You would plug them into the power supply in parallel as to keep the voltage high.

You could easily drop the number of XT-E Royal Blues to 48. That is still much more output than most LED fixtures for a tank that size, and more than enough for a tank that size, especially when driven at 1000mA. Just make sure to have well matched optics for the depth.

On the topic of the whites, it's a bit of a waste to use XM-L emitters at only 1200mA. I'd suggest you wait a bit and see if one of the sellers gets the MK-R in stock. It is a bit more efficient and has a max current of only 1250mA but a max forward voltage of a bit over 10V. They can run of the LDD drivers and hopefully will be available soon. Cutter already has the XM-L2 which was released a few weeks ago, and should get the MK-R as well. They can run up to 15W each and may be something you'd be interested in.

If you stick with the XM-L, they should be fine on the driver you chose, as should the number since they're driven at 1200mA.

With the coral whites, just make sure their forward voltage total at 700mA is under 24V for the whole string. If it's not, you need a higher voltage power supply.

Overall, I'd suggest you split the drivers by power requirement instead of by color, and get high current versions to run each voltage tier. For example, here is a 36V 9000mA power supply that isn't too expensive. There is also a 48V version of it.

There may be some issues with the true violets as well, but I'm not sure which ones you're using.

Those are a majority of the things I see wrong.

 

[daplatapus]

Ok, thanks AMD
I obviously don't understand how to do the math at all. Here's is what I thought I had to do to get everything running at 48V or less to keep everything safe. I thought you had to add up the voltage of each LED per string to figure out the total voltage for the string. I thought that voltage remained constant regardless of how many strings ran in parallel. Then you had to get the amperage of the LED's and multiply that with how many strings in parallel to figure out what the amperage requirement of you power supply.
Can someone tell me, given the following example (just the 4 strings of 15 RB LED's), how I would figure out the requirements of each string, then how to figure out the needed power supply for those 4 strings. Once I learn how to arrive at those answers I can modify it if it doesn't work safely or isn't recommended for any number of reasons. But I need to learn how to do the math first.

Thank you to who ever reads this and has the patience to help me.

 

[daplatapus]

Alright, I think I might have had an epiphany.
For that one group of RB's I come up with this:
15 LED's on a string would require 3.2 fV @ 900mA (that's the max the LDD drivers allow if I'm not mistaken) So 15 X 3.2 = 48V.

the royal blues with 15 on a string won't work with a 45V power supply as the driver needs the total forward voltage + 3V to work

Add another 3V (is this a generic 3V or do you add the voltage of 1 extra figurative LED to the string for good measure?) which takes us to a total voltage requirement of 51 volts.

Now the amperage draw is 900mA. 900mA X 4 strings = 3.6A. I read somewhere you should only run your power supply at 80% current so 3.6A / .8 = 4.5 amps.

So for that group of 4 strings of 15 led's I would need a theoretical power supply that could provide 51V at 4.5 amps?
Please tell me that's right.

 

[AMDphenomx4]

Alright, I think I might have had an epiphany.
For that one group of RB's I come up with this:
15 LED's on a string would require 3.2 fV @ 900mA (that's the max the LDD drivers allow if I'm not mistaken) So 15 X 3.2 = 48V.


Add another 3V (is this a generic 3V or do you add the voltage of 1 extra figurative LED to the string for good measure?) which takes us to a total voltage requirement of 51 volts.

Now the amperage draw is 900mA. 900mA X 4 strings = 3.6A. I read somewhere you should only run your power supply at 80% current so 3.6A / .8 = 4.5 amps.

So for that group of 4 strings of 15 led's I would need a theoretical power supply that could provide 51V at 4.5 amps?
Please tell me that's right.

The Meanwell LDD needs a 3V overhead from the Vf to work, so it's a generic +3V as you said.

I'm not sure where you're getting 900mA for the LDD. It's a 1000mA driver, and it won't change. Basically, find the forward voltage required for a string, find a power supply that can do at least that +3V output and then take the current rating of the drivers you're running on it, and add them. Find a power supply that meets or exceeds this current rating, or in your case with the 80% request, is 1.25X higher.

The problem with running 15 XT-E per string is that you need a power supply of over 50V which isn't that common. I still suggest you drop to say 13 XT-E a string instead of 15. It's still more than enough and it will save a lot of headache and cost in finding a power supply large enough.

I obviously don't understand how to do the math at all. Here's is what I thought I had to do to get everything running at 48V or less to keep everything safe. I thought you had to add up the voltage of each LED per string to figure out the total voltage for the string. I thought that voltage remained constant regardless of how many strings ran in parallel.

That is exactly what you do, you just didn't do the math right somehow. For instance, the XT-E RB need 45V (+3V overhead) and 1A to run on the 1000mA driver. The power supply must be about 4000mA since you're running 4 drivers in parallel on it.

What you were thinking of a wiring plan isn't wrong. You just need to make sure you can power the strings properly.

 

[daplatapus]

Thank you Sooooo much for sticking with me. Ok, I think I understand now. I know, it took a while!!! :deadhorse:
If I went with 5 parallel strings of 12 XT-E (so that each string is equal and I still got 60 LED's) I would use those LDD1000 drivers, and need a power supply that would give me 41.4V at 6.25A.
My logic:
12 LED @ 3.2 Vf = 38.4V +3V (as per specs) = 41.4V
The driver puts out 1000mA (I looked at the input not the output for some reason, that's where the 900 mA came from) X 5 strings = 5A / .8 (for 80%) = 6.25A
So I could use this power supply:
http://www.powergatellc.com/mean-well-se-350-48-power-supply.html

SO for the TV's:
9 LED's X 3.4 Vf = 33.6V
Drivers put out 700mA X 2 strings = 1.4A / .8 = 1.75A
Power supply needs to put out 33.6V @ 1.75A

XM-L Neutral whites:
12 LED's X 3.35V = 40.2V
A Meanwell HLG-185-H-42B driver can be adjusted to run at 3000mA (max current rating for the XM-L) X 3 strings = 9A / .8 = 11.25A
Power supply needs to put out 40.2V @ 11.25A

XM-L Cool whites:
9 LED's @ 3.35V = 30.15V
Meanwell HLG-185-36B adjusts to max 3000mA X 1 string = 3A / .8 = 3.75A
Power supply needs to put out 30.15V @ 3.75A

Ocean Coral whites:
3 LED's @ 8.6V = 25.8V
Since the stars are rated at 500mA I'd be wiser to drop down to the LDD-500-H instead of the LDD-700-H.
So driver puts out 500mA X 3 strings = 1.5A / .8 = 1.875A
Power supply needs to put out 25.8V @ 1.875A

So for the RB's I could use this power supply:
http://www.powergatellc.com/mean-well-se-350-48-power-supply.html

Now correct me if I'm wrong here or you wouldn't recommend this, I could use this power supply:
http://www.powergatellc.com/mean-well-se-350-36-power-supply.html

to power up the TV's, the CW's and the OCW's. How I came to this conclusion:
TV's need 33.6V @ 1.75A
CW's need 30.15V @ 3.75A
OCW's need 28.8V @ 1.875A
That totals 7.375A and between 28.8V to 33.6V. Can you do that?

Then for the NW's I'd need something like this for a power supply:
http://www.powergatellc.com/mean-well-se-350-48-power-supply.html

Now I see the problem with these XM-L's. That is the largest power supply they have that gives me the proper voltage but my current is too low. If my math is right (with the 80% margin) I'd be running these LED's at 1950mA instead of the rated 3000mA. I could still use the same driver but would be current regulated and thus under driving the LED's. Which I guess isn't all bad.

Any errors here??

Thanks again

 

[AMDphenomx4]

Thank you Sooooo much for sticking with me. Ok, I think I understand now. I know, it took a while!!! :deadhorse:
If I went with 5 parallel strings of 12 XT-E (so that each string is equal and I still got 60 LED's) I would use those LDD1000 drivers, and need a power supply that would give me 41.4V at 6.25A.
My logic:
12 LED @ 3.2 Vf = 38.4V +3V (as per specs) = 41.4V
The driver puts out 1000mA (I looked at the input not the output for some reason, that's where the 900 mA came from) X 5 strings = 5A / .8 (for 80%) = 6.25A

Oh, you were right with the 900mA and lower input currents. Power supply requirements are lower. My mistake. Sorry. Output current is 1000mA though and as such, LED Vf is also at 1000mA.

So I could use this power supply:
http://www.powergatellc.com/mean-well-se-350-48-power-supply.html

SO for the TV's:
9 LED's X 3.4 Vf = 33.6V
Drivers put out 700mA X 2 strings = 1.4A / .8 = 1.75A
Power supply needs to put out 33.6V @ 1.75A

XM-L Neutral whites:
12 LED's X 3.35V = 40.2V
A Meanwell HLG-185-H-42B driver can be adjusted to run at 3000mA (max current rating for the XM-L) X 3 strings = 9A / .8 = 11.25A
Power supply needs to put out 40.2V @ 11.25A

XM-L Cool whites:
9 LED's @ 3.35V = 30.15V
Meanwell HLG-185-36B adjusts to max 3000mA X 1 string = 3A / .8 = 3.75A
Power supply needs to put out 30.15V @ 3.75A

Ocean Coral whites:
3 LED's @ 8.6V = 25.8V
Since the stars are rated at 500mA I'd be wiser to drop down to the LDD-500-H instead of the LDD-700-H.
So driver puts out 500mA X 3 strings = 1.5A / .8 = 1.875A
Power supply needs to put out 25.8V @ 1.875A

So for the RB's I could use this power supply:
http://www.powergatellc.com/mean-well-se-350-48-power-supply.html

Now correct me if I'm wrong here or you wouldn't recommend this, I could use this power supply:
http://www.powergatellc.com/mean-well-se-350-36-power-supply.html

to power up the TV's, the CW's and the OCW's. How I came to this conclusion:
TV's need 33.6V @ 1.75A
CW's need 30.15V @ 3.75A
OCW's need 28.8V @ 1.875A
That totals 7.375A and between 28.8V to 33.6V. Can you do that?

The 350W 36V power supply should work, but the true violets may push it if they're a bad batch. It supposedly is rated up to 40V with 41V being overloaded. Otherwise, there's a 48V version that puts out 7.3A which is a bit lower than you'd want (except for my unaccounting for input current which will lower it) , but enough to run the strings.

The 36V one should be fine though, so have someone else confirm it.


Then for the NW's I'd need something like this for a power supply:
http://www.powergatellc.com/mean-well-se-350-48-power-supply.html

You don't need a power supply. They come with one built in. The problem earlier was you were using drivers which only went up to 1.3A. The ones you're using now can go to 3A.

Now I see the problem with these XM-L's. That is the largest power supply they have that gives me the proper voltage but my current is too low. If my math is right (with the 80% margin) I'd be running these LED's at 1950mA instead of the rated 3000mA. I could still use the same driver but would be current regulated and thus under driving the LED's. Which I guess isn't all bad.

You don't need a power supply. They come with one built in. The problem earlier was you were using drivers which only went up to 1.3A. The ones you're using now can go to 3A.

Any errors here??

Thanks again

When doing the forward voltage calculation, always use the max worst case scenario.

 

[daplatapus]

Du'oh! I knew the HLG's didn't need a power supply, I just got into the rut of doing the math and forgot what drivers I was using.

So since I included the CW's (which were also on a HLG driver) in with the TV's and OCW's, when I take them out of the equation, that power supply should be more than enough.

Again, I can't thank you enough.

Can anyone else confirm all of this for me/us?