need quick help with clownfish and copper!

[stantheman]

Hey guys I have a pair of clowns in quarantine and I just yesterday uped my copper level to the final of .5mg/l. There is also a yellow tang a coral beauty and a royal gramma in with these fish. The other 3 fish are eating and show no signs of stress however the clownfish have been eating well until I upped my copper level. Now they sit near the bottom swimming fairly normally but with their mouths slightly opened and one didn't eat this morning the other just nipped at flakes a little. They do seem to be fairly stressed but I want to know what others opinions are. My questions. Will these fish pull out of it at .5 copper which is what cupramine recommends after they sort of acclimate to it? Should I do a slight water change to lower it to around .3 or .4? Again thanks for all the help I have gotten from all the friendly knowledgeable people on reef central! The forum truly make starting a saltwater aquarium much more enjoyable!

 

[stantheman]

I should add the previously my copper was at .25 and they were acting completely normal. I dosed to the final per cupramine instructions and not 2 hours later they were acting this way. Tested copper with api dropper kit and still shows .5 this morning clownish have been at that level now for 15 hrs. I would think if it was going to poison them it would have already? Will they pull through and get used to the increased copper level?

 

[Deinonych]

How quickly did you raise the concentration? It sounds like they are showing some sensitivity to it, which can happen if you raise the concentration too quickly. When I treat with copper, I ramp up the dosage over 5 days, usually in small 10% increments twice each day. I also treat at 0.40mg/L for 4 weeks. Frankly, Seachem's instructions are too aggressive, and I wish they would change them.

Try going back to 0.25mg/L with a water change, get them eating again, then raise it very slowly.

 

[stantheman]

Well that seems to be the kind of info I am looking for I have never used copper so I figured I would do per seachem instructions but with a test kit this is in a 30 gallon so I will swap out 5 gallons from my do into the other to bring it back down

 

[MrTuskfish]

Well that seems to be the kind of info I am looking for I have never used copper so I figured I would do per seachem instructions but with a test kit this is in a 30 gallon so I will swap out 5 gallons from my do into the other to bring it back down

SeaaChem's Cupramine page has a ton of info, the FAQ are vital. API tests don't work with Cupramine copper. SeaChem or Salifert copper tests do work. Yes, it gets complicated, copper comes in many flavors. I think you'll find the SeaChem site to be in line with the comments from Deinonych above. Don't hesitate to call SeaChem tech support either. I think they're great. http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Cupramine.html

 

[stantheman]

Your saying a api cu test won't accurately read copper levels?

 

[MrTuskfish]

Your saying a api cu test won't accurately read copper levels?

It will read chelated copper, Cupramine is an ionic copper.... API won't work. I think you'll find this on the link I posted above. Most ammonia tests don't work with Cupramine either, the stick on ammonia alert badges do.

 

[stantheman]

I'm sorry didn't notice the link Thanks bummed I didn't know that before buying it.i swapped out 5 gallons for 5 gallons of untreated display water they have closed their mouths and seem to have perked up a little!

 

[Deinonych]

It will read chelated copper, Cupramine is an ionic copper.... API won't work.

Cupramine technically isn't chelated or ionic. But API still doesn't work regardless.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Cupramine technically isn't chelated or ionic. But API still doesn't work regardless.

I thought I had a senior moment, but from Cupramines web page. Although I'll admit my brain isn't really geared toward chemistry:




"Cupramine
Product Description
Cupramine™ effectively eradicates Oodinium, Cryptocaryon, Amyloodinium, Ichthyophthirius, and other ectoparasites of both freshwater and marine fish. It is superior to copper sulfate, chloride & citrate: it is non-acidic, less toxic to fish, remains in solution, and does not contaminate the filter bed. It is superior to chelates: it is fully charged (ionic), active at low concentrations, and is removable with carbon."

 

[Deinonych]

Probably splitting hairs, but I think of ionic copper as the salted forms like copper sulfate or copper citrate. Since Cupramine is a copper-amine complex, it's kind of a hybrid of the two - the potency of the salted form and the stability of the chelated form.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Probably splitting hairs, but I think of ionic copper as the salted forms like copper sulfate or copper citrate. Since Cupramine is a copper-amine complex, it's kind of a hybrid of the two - the potency of the salted form and the stability of the chelated form.

My 1st year of college, 48 yrs ago, was at a small liberal arts school and I had to take chemistry. And they wouldn't even let us blow things up! It was the worst grade I ever received in my life and I was scheduled to take biology the next year. I transferred the next year. So, I'll take your word for it

 

[Deinonych]

My 1st year of college, 48 yrs ago, was at a small liberal arts school and I had to take chemistry. And they wouldn't even let us blow things up! It was the worst grade I ever received in my life and I was scheduled to take biology the next year. I transferred the next year. So, I'll take your word for it

LOL. Trust me, be glad you didn't get to blow things up. I minored in chemistry (majored in biology), and during one Organic Chemistry lab session, someone did cause an explosion. I can't remember the specific experiment, but it involved heating concentrated nitric and sulfuric acids, and one of the students wasn't paying attention. Small explosion, glass shards everywhere. It's a wonder no one was hurt.

[edit] Found a link to the experiment, I think.

 

[stantheman]

Can someone confirm that these spots are ich? They have been on the fish for a week and a half now and I feel like that's a bit long for them

 

[MrTuskfish]

Can someone confirm that these spots are ich? They have been on the fish for a week and a half now and I feel like that's a bit long for them

Like I said on another thread you jumped into, please start your own thread. Everyone here wants to help, but can only deal with one problem at a time. And, yes, it looks like ich. This is a bit long for spots to remain, but ich doesn't follow the rules very well. Could be many things, though.

 

[stantheman]

Gees guys I did start this thread thank you very much!

 

[stantheman]

Seems to me you need to chill a little read above at where you went with my thread when I was looking for help and I didn't complain.

 

[MrTuskfish]

My mistake, sorry! Was doing two things at once and that doesn't work for me anymore.