Neptune Issue involving a "small" public subnet

[DBrinson]

I think I may have identified a problem, I have been picking at it for a month or more (VERY happy with my Apex overall btw)

The IP address assigned to the bootloader is outside the range of a "small" subnet, say one with a netmask of 255.255.255.248. <--- me

Having a "static" IP address reserved for your Apex carries enormous utility. I could, I believe, just reset my laptop and Apex and upload the latest patch that way. But I don't want to, I want to get it to work with the static connection. I keep very detailed graphs and turning the Apex off skews the high and low range of the graphs to make the chart useless to me. I also want in the future be able to patch the Apex remotely.

I have a small subnet of IP addresses and the bootloader to the Apex is assigned a nearby IP address that would normally be "in range" unless a subnet is very small. But this address always falls outside of my assigned range.

I hesitate to admit how much network-related training I have because the fact I can't get this to work is somewhat embarrassing if someone I know sees this and has an obvious solution onhand. :fun5:

I can update the web page ... just not the firmware past 4.03. It is in accessing the bootloader via a temporary IP address inside my subnet that is impossible with this software.


Side note kenargo ... I suspect the issue may not be with 4.04 itself, but with an earlier update which did tweak the uploader. I am guessing the Apex programmers changed the uploader at some point before 4.03 to "shoot" for a further away IP address to assign the bootloader MAC address to.

This would make "overlapping" with another IP address on a large subnet more unlikely .... but it would make future updates impossible if the IP address assigned "shoots" outside of the range of small subnets such as mine.

That make any sense? Here is a picture to explain, I blotted out the first two octets for security.

Quick legend:
.12.42 is my local machine
.12.41 is my gateway
.12.44 is the Apex
.12.171 is the IP address assigned to the bootloader MAC address by the Flash Utility software. (It is outside of my subnet.)

See that IP address that shows up when the flash utility loads? That is the bootloader IP address, if I had a larger subnet it would be routed to by my network, but I don't, so it doesn't.

Keep in mind I am running this Apex on a small public subnet.

If anyone knows how to reassign that bootloader IP address please let me know. If I could force it to say, .12.46 I'd be home free.

 

[Deleted member 143833]

The boot loader has a command-line option so allow you to create the bootloader address; use the '/noarp' option on the command-line and you will be prompted to enter the ARP command manually; fix it up for your subnet and you should be good to go.

 

[RussM]

The firmware updater seems to assume a /24 subnet, a generally quite safe choice since that is what nearly all SOHO routers use by default; .171 is probably picked by default to minimize chances of the address ascoiated with the necessary manual ARP entry already being in use.

 

[DBrinson]

The boot loader has a command-line option so allow you to create the bootloader address; use the '/noarp' option on the command-line and you will be prompted to enter the ARP command manually; fix it up for your subnet and you should be good to go.

The firmware updater seems to assume a /24 subnet, a generally quite safe choice since that is what nearly all SOHO routers use by default; .171 is probably picked by default to minimize chances of the address ascoiated with the necessary manual ARP entry already being in use.

Thanks for the tips!

When I ran it different times (clearing the arp table entry in between, I did get different values for the assignment, though they were all in the upper two-thirds of a /24 subnet. The lowest I got was in the .90's.

I have a /27 subnet and I was able to fix my ARP entries so they would point to the apex, but that wasn't enough, I still had to set the router as my gateway (or else modify my gateway router's tables for my location from the console, something I used to do before AT&T got control freaky on me.)

In the end, I just went ahead and used a laptop and a direct connection to update the files. It wasn't that much trouble, but you know how hard it is to coach people through Apex issues, it would be nice to just get people connected on a static IP and log into their Apex yourself to upload patches. I've let a few people log into my own Apex remotely to show them the settings they need to have, and it helped them a lot.

By the way RussM and kenargo, both of your sites are outstanding references ... I'll be joining Reeftronics's member ranks soon, and I have already been tinkering with your gadgets and scripts kenargo, great stuff!

 

[RussM]

In the end, I just went ahead and used a laptop and a direct connection to update the files.

I'd have probably done the same in your situation. I've been doing network design/installation/remediation and related consulting for >20 years, and even my home network doesn't have that level of complexity.

By the way RussM and kenargo, both of your sites are outstanding references

Thank you!

 

[RussM]

To any causal readers of this thread... don't let all the geek-speak alarm you; DBrinson's setup is highly unusual, and the situation is something that the vast majority of controller owners would never encounter.

 

[DBrinson]

I'd have probably done the same in your situation. I've been doing network design/installation/remediation and related consulting for >20 years, and even my home network doesn't have that level of complexity.

Wasn't that complex when I set it up this way .... static IP's were once considered simpler than DHCP dynamic servers. (taken literally, they still are)

I live in the boondocks, and didn't even have cable available. Ten years ago I worked with a bunch of guys in the USAF who loved to "sniff" so I wanted to run a secure server from my Red Hat Linux box at my house to my workspace on base. I ended up "doing it myself" with ISDN. (Helped me get my CCNA cert too)

I have the same setup now I had then, just a T1 instead of ISDN. I'm still too far from the local box office for decent DSL, and still no cable TV out here. Can access my Apex from anywhere I want to, though.

 

[RussM]

LOL... I hear ya! 12 years ago when I bought my current house, I couldn't get anything decent... no DSL, cable, even a BRI. The phone company CO couldn't even handle a 56k dialup... was stuck at 33.6k. My employer was paying for BRI or DSL service for employees so we could telecommute - the only option we could find was a $500/month T1; needless to say, that didn't happen. I ended up using a Novell 3.12 server with it's remote access service doing dial-on-demand & distributing the traffic across 2 concurrent PPP dial-up connections. :eek2:. A year and a half later, thankfully I had cable available.