New clownfish with possible Ich??

[taylortot]

Ok so I recently started up my very first saltwater tank. It's a 60 gallon aquarium that I let run for about 2 months before I added some Chromis', 10 hermit crabs, and some snails. After seeing them successfully strive in my tank for about 3 weeks, I decided I wanted to go ahead and get a clown.

I went to a local aquatic shop and found the clown I wanted who was a baby black ocellaris. I noticed he had some white speckles on him but when I asked the owner of the aquatic shop about his health he insisted the fish was healthy. He prepared food for him and allowed me to watch him eat (which he happily did) to show his good health. He was a good swimmer, and ate fine. The owner of the store insisted he did not have ich.

i've only had to deal with ich once in my freshwater tank a long time ago, so i couldn't know for sure if this was what ich would look like on a clownfish so I went ahead and trusted the guy who had owned the aquatic shop for 16+ years, figuring he knew what he was talking about.

But the SECOND i got him home it just looked way too much like ich not to worry about it. He's been in my tank for three days now, and still has the white speckles all over him. The guy at the store told me he was just missing some scales due to some aggressive tank mates, but I do not believe that's what it is anymore.


Can you tell by this picture if this is Ich? and if it is, how should I go about treating it? I've never dealt with ich in a saltwater tank before, and since I have 2 other fish in there I don't want to harm them, but my hospital tank is not ready yet to add a fish into (it is still cycling) and I don't want to stress him out even more by moving him into a smaller tank. My other fish are fine, do not have ich. My clown is eating just fine from what I see and is very active. So anyways, please leave some tips! I know the pics aren't the best quality, it's hard to get a good shot on my phone of a clownfish who is always moving.

 

[Lunchbox360]

That looks like ich..if you think he has it then he does. I would suggest two things 1. Seems like this little guy means allot to you so you might wanna put him in a quarantine tank and dose the right amount of copper and leave him in there for two weeks too kill the parasite your gonna have too pay close attention to the tank make sure he makes it tho i know too many horror story's about quarantine tanks
Or

2. Go and get your money back and raise hell at the store and get a new one..i find that if one has it allot more do so i wouldn't buy anymore fish from their.

 

[Ou8me2]

It indeed looks like the early stages of Ick. I'd suggest you either put him in a quarantine tank or take him back. Fish can still act healthy and eat fine in the early stages of Ick.

 

[gone fishin]

It does look like it may be ich but one of the other pictures it would appear there is some discoloration as well, this may indicate Brooklynella.


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2389659

Look at the link it has a diagnosis section as well as sections on ich. I would read the sections on Broolynella as well to rule out that it is not brook.

As far as treatment option they are also in the link. Just a quick overview all the fish need to be treated in a QT/HT. If it is ich I prefer the Tank transfer method over copper. Also the DT needs to remain fallow or fishless for 72 days. If you determine it is Brook then you need to move quickly. Brook is a fast killer and requires a different treatment. Good luck just my 2 cents.

 

[A.Astore]

What is in your hospital tank? The best type of hospital tank is a bare bottom, nothing in it so any medications used are not pulled in by the rock/sand. This also allows for a very easy and thorough cleaning once the treatment is complete. Only asking because you said you are waiting for it to cycle. If you have nothing in it, there is no need to cycle it. I keep my QT like this so if I need to set it up I can do so in minutes and have fish in it as soon as the thing is filled. Just a suggestion.

And as gonefishin mentioned, if you end up believing it is ICH you will need to remove all of the fish from the display tank to get rid of the ICH that is in the tank. The general accepted time is 72 days with no fish. Because you have snails and hermits you absolutely cannot treat the tank with copper. They cannot be infected with ICH so when you remove the fish to a different tank to treat they can stay in the main system.

Very sad that the store owner sold you a fish that you questioned its health about. I would refrain from buying from that store simply because their system is most likely a series so if the fish you purchased has something there is a good chance the remaining tanks also have it. Don't get me wrong, there is little chance that a store can remain free of disease in their systems and we need to diligently do our part of keeping disease out of our own system; however, to outwardly tell a customer the fish definitely does not have something wrong just to make a sale is a red flag for me personally. Another thing to keep in mind is a lot of stores will run low levels of copper in their system which is enough to mask physical symptoms but generally not completely remove the issue.

 

[snorvich]

It does look like it may be ich but one of the other pictures it would appear there is some discoloration as well, this may indicate Brooklynella.


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2389659

Look at the link it has a diagnosis section as well as sections on ich. I would read the sections on Broolynella as well to rule out that it is not brook.

As far as treatment option they are also in the link. Just a quick overview all the fish need to be treated in a QT/HT. If it is ich I prefer the Tank transfer method over copper. Also the DT needs to remain fallow or fishless for 72 days. If you determine it is Brook then you need to move quickly. Brook is a fast killer and requires a different treatment. Good luck just my 2 cents.

This.

 

[taylortot]

Okay so I am starting the believe it is definitely brooklynella. I attempted to transfer him to a quarantine tank and the net i used to catch him caused him to lose a scale. I was gentle with the catching, but it still happened. Because of this i'm now leaving towards brooklynella. I'm going to look up treatment ideas and hope for the best. my quarantine tank had sand in it so I am going to redo that. thank you guys!

 

[gone fishin]

If your leaning towards brook and need to buy some time then a freshwater dip will help out. The dip will provide some relief until you can get the medication to treat. Good luck.

 

[taylortot]

Ok one last thing since i'm now leaning towards brookynella and not ich.

Would this be a sign of it? All the white flakey things have completely disappeared, but he seems to be missing a scale or something near his head...? Or what do you think that red mark is??

sorry for all the questions! this is my first clown so I just want to make sure I don't miss anything

 

[gone fishin]

No problem about the questions. Hopefully we can get it figured out.

It is typical for the spots to disappear in ich cases in about 72 hours due to the ich lifecycle.But this can happen with brook as well. I can see the spot your talking about but I can't really make out anything for a certainty. Other than the scale is the clown showing any other symptoms of brook? I would look for a washed out, appearance of excess slime coat, maybe frayed fins, lethargy. The spot is giving me pause since IME it is not typical with ich.

You may want to try and post in the fish disease forum. There are some folks over there that may be able to give a more definitive answer. Snorvich, Dmorty and Throewer are some of the ones over there that I would seek out.

Sorry I could not be of more help. The downside of the forum, not actually being able to see the fish.

 

[powderblue1]

Your fish had a protozoan, fungal and maybe even a bacterial infection when you first purchased him. You need to return him to the store first thing and let the store owner know that after some research you now know that the fish was indeed diseased upon purchase from his establishment and that he is required to refund your money and take the fish back due to that fact. The fish store owner lied to you. This should not be tolerated.
Now, if you are like me and realize that a guy that would lie to you is the same type of guy that would let the fish die rather than properly treat it, then you do have some options. You must act fast though if you want to get through this with all of your stock alive and healthy at the end.
First, remove all inverts from your main tank and place them in a QT (this will be disputed, don't listen to them.
Next, slowly lower your main tank's salinity to 1.009. This can be done over a 2 to 3-day period by doing 20% water changes at virtually zero salinity every 12 - 24 hours until the desired salinity is achieved.
You must maintain this 1.009-1.010 salinity for 4 to 10 weeks, depending on your source (I found 4-weeks works, but if you want to go with the full 10 then that is up to you). This would be 4 - 10 weeks after the last sign of ich, not a fungal or bacterial disease, is gone. The Brooklynella will initially take longer to go away, but it is usually gone at that point or a week after.
There are indeed problems that come with lowering salinity to this point to kill off disease, but it does work if done correctly. The "hypo-salinity treatment" as it is termed is really for ich (which I believe your fish has, regardless of what additional disease you see visually now). Once the ich is out of the fish completely (which should take a day once the proper salinity is achieved) you should make a 20% water change at the new 1.009 salinity (get used to this because you should make weekly to biweekly water changes of this type throughout the treatment). One of the problems with lowering your salinity to this point is going to be your skimmer not functioning optimally which will cause nitrates and NH3 to build if frequent water changes are not made.
I could go through the various benefits of a hypo treatment, but if you want to read up on it there are many good sources on this site and the web. Mainly, osmotic pressure regulation for a fish is much better than that of most inverts (including protozoa) and O2 solubility increases that come with lowered salinity will aid in healing and overall health.
Once you see the last signs of the ich, you should see the fish's energy come back somewhat. In addition, I've found that increased feeding with garlic and powdered ginger root will help as well (this will be contested as well, don't listen If a secondary disease is bad enough after the first 24-48 hours after optimal salinity is achieved then you should start this secondary treatment.
To get rid of other diseases you should try Melafix at half the recommended dosage first. If you don't see improvements within the first 24-hours, then do a 50% water change (remember the salinity level) and use the recommended dose. If you STILL don't see any improvement after the first 24-hours after the second treatment then you will have to break out the big guns. Not even sure if I should reveal this one since there are definitely some that don't appreciate what I do here. Actually, I will keep that one for now. If you trust me, which you should despite the replies that will inevitably be written in response to my advice, and apply these methods and you get to this point and still have a bacterial or fungal infection after the Melafix, then private message me and I will tell you the next step. Time to get on it! Start immediately, so you can finish and get back to why you started this saltwater switch for in the first place. Healthy fish and beautiful aquascape Be well and God Bless :fish1::fish2::fish2::fish2::fish1:

 

[gone fishin]

Well everyone is certainly entitled to an opinion. I for one think that is bad advice and hope new folks do not pay attention to it.

 

[taylortot]

What is in your hospital tank? The best type of hospital tank is a bare bottom, nothing in it so any medications used are not pulled in by the rock/sand. This also allows for a very easy and thorough cleaning once the treatment is complete. Only asking because you said you are waiting for it to cycle. If you have nothing in it, there is no need to cycle it. I keep my QT like this so if I need to set it up I can do so in minutes and have fish in it as soon as the thing is filled. Just a suggestion.

And as gonefishin mentioned, if you end up believing it is ICH you will need to remove all of the fish from the display tank to get rid of the ICH that is in the tank. The general accepted time is 72 days with no fish. Because you have snails and hermits you absolutely cannot treat the tank with copper. They cannot be infected with ICH so when you remove the fish to a different tank to treat they can stay in the main system.

Very sad that the store owner sold you a fish that you questioned its health about. I would refrain from buying from that store simply because their system is most likely a series so if the fish you purchased has something there is a good chance the remaining tanks also have it. Don't get me wrong, there is little chance that a store can remain free of disease in their systems and we need to diligently do our part of keeping disease out of our own system; however, to outwardly tell a customer the fish definitely does not have something wrong just to make a sale is a red flag for me personally. Another thing to keep in mind is a lot of stores will run low levels of copper in their system which is enough to mask physical symptoms but generally not completely remove the issue.

My hospital tank is only 10 gallons. Has a marineland penguin 150 in it and a 50w heater. bare bottom and has a hiding spot.

i am no longer buying any fish from that store. The store has been around for 20 or so years and is one of those local stores that a family clearly started together. The owner has been there all 20 years and assumed he would know what he was doing, but about 5 months ago I bought a group of 6 cherry barbs from there which also all had ich a day after bringing them home.

The only problems ive ever had is with fish from there, so i'm no longer going to go there. I kept the clown and his symptoms dissapeared, and i put off the quarentine tank because i was nervous of the added stress from transfer. Now he seems ok but my other fish has ich. Moved him to the 10g for now. He's not doing well. In quite some shock after the freshwater dip he just went through. I plan on purchasing a bigger QT tank ASAP so I can move all my fish into it. Clearly, my tank has ich.

 

[pyithar]

if your tank has ich, you'll need to fallow the whole system(display and sump) fishless for at least 72 days. in the mean time, i'd do the tank transfer method for the fishes and after that, observe them in a decent size quarantine tank. good luck.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

Well everyone is certainly entitled to an opinion. I for one think that is bad advice and hope new folks do not pay attention to it.

X2 :thumbsup: