New Design for a Non-Photosynthetic System
- Thread starter herring_fish
- Start date
herring_fish
Crazy Designer
That's coming from Marc but he just left town and will address it when he gets back.
herring_fish
Crazy Designer
Example
Example
Click this line to go to the address where you can see someone that has used a plastic container.
Where is an example of another guy’s work. He is simply trying to suppress cyano bacteria so it is a little under power to be an algal surf scrubber. Never the less, it is along the lines that I was talking about. I think that if he just grew algae, his cyano problems would go away.
Example
Click this line to go to the address where you can see someone that has used a plastic container.
Where is an example of another guy’s work. He is simply trying to suppress cyano bacteria so it is a little under power to be an algal surf scrubber. Never the less, it is along the lines that I was talking about. I think that if he just grew algae, his cyano problems would go away.
dendronephthya
New member
Hi Asa
Charles Matthews here. I found a letter from you, and I remember some conversations we have had in the past. I hope that you got some reply from me- if not, you are welcome to call.
I have a lot of respect for you. You are an obviously talented design guy. I suspect you will ber able to make a significant contribution to NPS husbandry particularly in designing optimum flow regimes. I'd like to correspond with you about that part, which I think needs development. I may be that we get a manufacturer enlisted in your design work who can implement it for the general market.
Some thoughts: from long experience, I would disconnect your concerns about nutrient management from the flow issue. I worked with the EcoWheel large area algae scrubber for years, and feel a Chaetomorpha form is easier and, indeed, more effective. I know you love your algae scrubber- I think I really had a romance with mine- but in the end, I replaced the scrubber box with Chaetomorpha and it works much better. The Chaeto outpaced the algae scrubber when I ran them concurrently, and the algae scrubber essentially stopped producing. Somehow, Chuck's phosphates stay under control; after trying everything (from Vodka to Lanthanum!) I now use a large amount of Warner Marine's large granule phosphate remover; it doesn't clog with the heavy feedings. I put a lot of it in my Deltec sump skimmer. When nitrates go lower, I can turn down the air to the skimmer and increase the flow through the GFO.
Regarding nitrates, I would think of those separately. I think the Miracle Mud people have a great system, the fine beds denitrify beautifully. In fact, I think they way to go may very well be a large Miracle Mud filter for denitrifycation plus GFO, keep phosphates undetectable, and then feed continuously with a syringe pump pump to keep nitrates detectable (that is, feed sufficiently to keep nitrates in slight excess of use by the system). That's currently where I am going with my large system. If you think about the nutrients this way, it simplifies the problem of getting optimum flow, and you can concentrate on how to get wonderful laminar flow.
Regarding flow, I would work on the problem of laminar flow, rather than surge- there's some good surge options out there, but no laminar option.
You and I have much in common
Charles Matthews M.D.
Charles Matthews here. I found a letter from you, and I remember some conversations we have had in the past. I hope that you got some reply from me- if not, you are welcome to call.
I have a lot of respect for you. You are an obviously talented design guy. I suspect you will ber able to make a significant contribution to NPS husbandry particularly in designing optimum flow regimes. I'd like to correspond with you about that part, which I think needs development. I may be that we get a manufacturer enlisted in your design work who can implement it for the general market.
Some thoughts: from long experience, I would disconnect your concerns about nutrient management from the flow issue. I worked with the EcoWheel large area algae scrubber for years, and feel a Chaetomorpha form is easier and, indeed, more effective. I know you love your algae scrubber- I think I really had a romance with mine- but in the end, I replaced the scrubber box with Chaetomorpha and it works much better. The Chaeto outpaced the algae scrubber when I ran them concurrently, and the algae scrubber essentially stopped producing. Somehow, Chuck's phosphates stay under control; after trying everything (from Vodka to Lanthanum!) I now use a large amount of Warner Marine's large granule phosphate remover; it doesn't clog with the heavy feedings. I put a lot of it in my Deltec sump skimmer. When nitrates go lower, I can turn down the air to the skimmer and increase the flow through the GFO.
Regarding nitrates, I would think of those separately. I think the Miracle Mud people have a great system, the fine beds denitrify beautifully. In fact, I think they way to go may very well be a large Miracle Mud filter for denitrifycation plus GFO, keep phosphates undetectable, and then feed continuously with a syringe pump pump to keep nitrates detectable (that is, feed sufficiently to keep nitrates in slight excess of use by the system). That's currently where I am going with my large system. If you think about the nutrients this way, it simplifies the problem of getting optimum flow, and you can concentrate on how to get wonderful laminar flow.
Regarding flow, I would work on the problem of laminar flow, rather than surge- there's some good surge options out there, but no laminar option.
You and I have much in common
Charles Matthews M.D.
herring_fish
Crazy Designer
As for the Chaetomorpha; I looked up pictures of it on the net. I’m not sure if that is what grew in my scrubber when it was mature or not. It looked very much like it. Perhaps it was a slightly different strain. My plants looked like the cellophane grass that you get in an Easter Basket. It had that same bright green color, somewhat translucent, like the pictures that I see as representing Chaetomorpha. It was not olive colored at all. It clumped up but it was a little less coarse and sometimes looked combed. Perhaps it looked that way because of all the water that rushes over it when the tray tipped. Might I add that it tasted spicy hot? I may circumvent the maturation process and getting the right stuff by buying some and putting it in my bucket to start with.
I am a little ignorant of the wheel but it looks like it provides time under water, out of the water and agitation, just like a bucket. My primary design criterion was fitting a certain surface area into a particular envelope. The wheel looks great if you have the space or require that shape. Does it have other important features that set it apart or is it what it grows preferentially?
After reading your article on dendros, I went to the net to looked up laminar flow solutions form other fields. I may be able to dumb down some patients that seems to work. I have a lot of half baked ideas of my own but need time to explore them.
As for the disconnection of flow issues from nutrient problem solving, I totally agree. While they do occasionally overlap, my annotations of solutions sometimes seem to confuse the two but I do keep them separate during inception. The surge from the bucket is primarily just cosmetic preference.
Actually, that is one of the many things that I want to talk to you about. I plane to have far more recirculation flow that does not interact with the nutrient processing features at all, than the water flow that does. A lesser amount will be drawn off via the standard over flow to the areas where it will be processed by the other play toys that you have so much experimental knowledge of. How little would be appropriate? …and which toys merit further exploration.
Before calling you, I will collect my questions so that I can ask you succinctly.
I am a little ignorant of the wheel but it looks like it provides time under water, out of the water and agitation, just like a bucket. My primary design criterion was fitting a certain surface area into a particular envelope. The wheel looks great if you have the space or require that shape. Does it have other important features that set it apart or is it what it grows preferentially?
After reading your article on dendros, I went to the net to looked up laminar flow solutions form other fields. I may be able to dumb down some patients that seems to work. I have a lot of half baked ideas of my own but need time to explore them.
As for the disconnection of flow issues from nutrient problem solving, I totally agree. While they do occasionally overlap, my annotations of solutions sometimes seem to confuse the two but I do keep them separate during inception. The surge from the bucket is primarily just cosmetic preference.
Actually, that is one of the many things that I want to talk to you about. I plane to have far more recirculation flow that does not interact with the nutrient processing features at all, than the water flow that does. A lesser amount will be drawn off via the standard over flow to the areas where it will be processed by the other play toys that you have so much experimental knowledge of. How little would be appropriate? …and which toys merit further exploration.
Before calling you, I will collect my questions so that I can ask you succinctly.
spline9
New member
herring_fish; I have had Chaetomorpha grow to what appeared to be two different types of algae. In one tank, it grows like a dense curled brillo-pad that is dark green (possibly olive) in color. In another tank, it grows rather stringy, and much more relaxed. The color in this would be very light green and translucent in color.
I believe it has something to do with the nutrient levels in the water. I dont think its the light, I'm pretty sure I had it stringy previously in the same tank (same light) where it is now dark green.
You may still have Chaeto. If you like, I can snap some pics of both algaes for you.
p.s. I havent tasted them so no input on flavor. Sorry.
I believe it has something to do with the nutrient levels in the water. I dont think its the light, I'm pretty sure I had it stringy previously in the same tank (same light) where it is now dark green.
You may still have Chaeto. If you like, I can snap some pics of both algaes for you.
p.s. I havent tasted them so no input on flavor. Sorry.
dendronephthya
New member
I'm sure it is one of the species of Chaetomorpha. That's the one to use... however, you are almost certainly going to need to use GFO for phosphate control, and a DSB or even better mud for denitrification... so the role of the macroalgae is really for oxygenationand substrate for benthic organisms. One could consider it optional. With phosphate and nitrate under control, you can dial in the syringe pump feed and dial down and off the skimmer. I don't think you will need a skimmer if your GFO and denitrification is sufficient, and may well do better without it.
Asa, I think it would be a great help to have the laminar flow solved. It can be done internally with horizontal platforms, and this can look really good for suspending a portion of a reef (mine is like that). But it would be nice to have some attention to the design of a flume tank, perhaps circulating bottom to top to keep food in suspension (no substrate in main tank). LEt me know what you are thinking.
Asa, I think it would be a great help to have the laminar flow solved. It can be done internally with horizontal platforms, and this can look really good for suspending a portion of a reef (mine is like that). But it would be nice to have some attention to the design of a flume tank, perhaps circulating bottom to top to keep food in suspension (no substrate in main tank). LEt me know what you are thinking.
herring_fish
Crazy Designer
dendro982 I have PM(ed) you with Marc Weiss's comments
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