New Fish with Brook (I think), advice on QT?

[michael_in_nc]

So, I just got an order in this past week of new fish (online retailer). I fortunately put them directly into QT. At least one of them had something, brooklynella I think based on pictures and the speed of it. In QT (40G breeder), I had:

(3) anthias
(2) maroon clowns
(2) tangs (kole, pacific blue)

I added formallin yesterday at a low dose once I suspected brook. This AM everything was dead except Pac blue tang and one maroon clown. Pac blue looks ok, but has at least one brownish spot on him. The maroon had torn up fins and is swimming near the top. Not sure if they will make it or not....

What is the best course of treatment for the survivors? How do I make sure QT is "clean" again before I use the tank again for new additions? Any other advice?

 

[wooden_reefer]

Ich and oodinium generally do not kill overnight without manifested symtoms the day before. If you see no dots or dust you likley do not have acute ich or oodinium.

How did you accilmate from shipping? Do not drip accilmate fish that has gone thru long hours in transport in a bag. If you put high ph tank water into low ph bag with ammonia (ph low because of accumulated CO2), you can have ammonia toxicity that does not show until the next day. As you know, the same amount of ammonia is more toxic at higher ph, even when diluted with the higher ph water..

Is the medium in your QT cycled?

How did the fish that is supposed to have Brook look like? Did you see fuzzy undistinct film on the fish?

 

[DeathMagnetic]

Wooden,

i dont want to hijack this thread .. but how do you acclimate a fish that has been in transport...

 

[Mrscribbled]

Formalin treatment requires a great deal of aeration. With that many fish plus Formalin, oxygen levels deplete greatly. I always acclimate new clownfish in an aerated formalin bath before going into qt.


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[wooden_reefer]

Wooden,

i dont want to hijack this thread .. but how do you acclimate a fish that has been in transport...

Do not allow QT tank water to enter the bag.

Just float to get temp match

Use the box sampling type hydrometer to check salinity in bag. If you have a ph meter use it to check ph.

Adjust the tank water parameter, salinity etc, to fit the bag water. If each bag water differ adjust tank water to average. If you think the tank water have ph that is too high, acidify a small portion of it. I would avoid ph rise of over 0.4.

Open each bag and place in an opague rigid plastic container of the correct size so that the bag is supported with the lapping sides of the bag hugging the rim of the container.

Wash your hand very well. If you know the fish is harmless, use clean hand to transfer it into tank.

If not, use a plastic tool. Or use thick gloves and then several layers of waterproof gloves.

You want to include very little of the water in the bag, because it has ammonia that is at lower ph. Do not allow a significant amount of bag water especially if you use a small portion of tank water that you have reduced the ph on.

 

[wooden_reefer]

I think placing drops of Prime or Amquel into the bags should also work, but I have not done it this way yet.

Some one should try and report back. Some people say the end-product, the inactivated ammonia, may choke fish in such a small amount of water. This might be a myth, but I have not disproved it.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Why don't shippers add a few drops of Prime or Amquel in the bags? May be there really is a reason many do not.

 

[michael_in_nc]

Wooden,

My acclimation procedure was basically as you describe.

- Measure salinity of bag water (prior to opening; I puncture the bag making sure not to get the fish, drip some water on my refractometer, then reseal with duct tape). I had read exposure to air can result in the pH rise and increase in ammonia toxicity.

- Float bags for temp acclimate, and adjust salinity of QT as needed.

- They usually ship at mild hypo 1.018, so my QT was already set to match. Usually very little change required.

- Open bag and add a little tank water. Repeat every couple minutes. Do this for about 10min, then transfer to QT tank. Goal here was to get pH matched reasonably close. Maybe I need to speed this up?

I had been having good success from this shipper and using this procedure. Virtually no losses on last two orders. I am probably pushing my QT in terms of load per order. It is cycled prior to ordering. I have filter floss in my DT sump that I pull into an AquaClear HOB power filter for each QT period.

Not sure the fish really had a film on them. The clowns were more distinctive in their symptoms. Fins have tears, skin is discolored in patches (could be film), and he is swimming at the top near water surface. Other fish didn't seem to exhibit as many of those symptoms. I started seeing symptoms at least 24hrs before death.

The tank had aeration in it but I wasn't running it very hard, just a bubble a second or so.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Wooden,

I am probably pushing my QT in terms of load per order. It is cycled prior to ordering. I have filter floss in my DT sump that I pull into an AquaClear HOB power filter for each QT period.

.

Ammonia should not be the problem if you had cycled the medium for QT very well. In general, there is no limit as to the bioload at QT, if your biological filter is set up correctly. If the filter had just processed several pulses of ammionia of several ppm, natural bioload can never exceed that artificial ammonia pulse.

You should design so that some excess bacteria will die gradually even AFTER the addition of new bioload. This is easily done and is usually the case after a strong cycle. There is no substitute for having a medium process a few strong ammonia pulses; such is cycling, period.

It seems that you were merely robbing DT of bacteria, not cycling, Cycling is to grow bacteria so that the medium is packed with them, not rob as much as you can from DT, still far from enough and still just rob from DT.

But in this case ammonia may or may not be the issue, as usually if you did not include much ammonia, ammonia should not accumulate so fast as to kill fish in a few hours, unless you have excess poops that decayed quickly. Mere excretion from fish should not kill this quickly.


I QT as many fish as I can all the time but one has to be confident in disease control. Usually there will not be ammonia at all in QT.

 

[wooden_reefer]

If it is not possible to handle high bioload in QT, how can a very large fish be QTed?

An eight inch fish has 8 times the weight of a four-inch fish of the same proportion.

It is not always possible to have low bioload, as you cannot QT a fraction of a large fish.

Cycling in advance very well well be manifestedly needed to QT an eight-inch fish. Otherwise, calamity will be very obvious and not debatable. You cannot rob a DT enough; such is very manifestedly very true.