new lighting idea: will this work for a mainly sps tank?

nemo g

New member
got a new idea for a lighting set-up:

i want to have low heat, low energy, very good intensity and high flexibility. i was thinking about going with an 8 bulb or 6 t5 set-up. but i think this will give me the options i want and the best of both worlds while removing most if not all the potential negatives.

here it is, going on a 65g (36x18x24 aga center braced) reef with emphasis on sps and lps.


l -------------------- 39w t5 -------------------- l
l -------------------- 39w t5 -------------------- l
l l
l --- 70w hqi --- --- 70w hqi --- l
l l
l -------------------- 39w t5 -------------------- l
l -------------------- 39w t5 -------------------- l

i figure i could play around with bulb combos till i get the right mix of color and intensity.

although i do like the "shimmer" of halide, i prefer it to be subdued. i dont like the sharp, small, jittery lines repeating in a very static pattern.

i figure, the lower intensity of the halides will reduce the contrast yet still provide the sim shim while giving some extra intensity at the top of the tank.

so, please share your experiences but try and keep the "opinions" to a minimum. ive read too many posts recently with guess work and bias without any hands on experience.

and for those that will say why not 2 150'w or a single 250:

i have a 250w hqi (blue wave 3, reef optix). although i loved the bright light i didnt like the heat, energy consumption (300w) and lack of flexibility (swapping out $100 bulbs till i get the "right" color isnt an option).

as for dual 150's, ive already addressed those concerns, ie heat, flexibility, energy cost, etc. dual 150's would probably be more heat, more contrast, and all around more expensive to run and maintain. thus the "new idea" of tossing in the dual 70's with a bunch of t5's.

the only negative i see, is the fact that the dual 70's will cost the same as dual 250's. but at least id get what i want, which is the aim in the end.

as for why not a single 150 or 250: the tank is an aga 65 which has a center brace. i am going aga for 2 main reasons.

1. cost, i figure the money i save on the tank v an oceanic (which i do like better) can go to the light.

2. most importantly, stand height. i prefer the 28" of the aga stand instead of the 32". and i can get the aga pine stand from a bud for $130 new, which is more saving for light or skimmer. the 28" is key for 2 major reasons.

a. im no basketball player so the lower height allows me to be able to easily work inside the 2' high tank.

b. seated viewing, which is what the tank is aimed at, not like an lfs, is superior on the aga stand. eye level is just about smack center, at least for myself and those who will share the tank with me. itll be a wonder to look up and down and side to side. shold be a nice imersive experience.

hope i addressed those questions before they take us off topic.

so, with this set up, ill get shim shim, high intensity, color flexibility (both of the light and fauna), superb light period control (dual t5 controls as well as either single or dual halide control), and can keep energy/running costs low. the only "problem" is the initial investment of about 850 beanos (and the hassle making a hood).

nonetheless, i think i should be able to keep anything i want, no?

did i miss anything?


nG
 
The amount of light you get from 70 watt mhs make it hard to justify their pricetag. Also (at least when I was looking) bulb selection was pretty dismal.

I went with all T5 in a similar situation and am happy. I like shimmer lines, but those are going to be some awfully expensive shimmer lines. If its worth it to you; go for it.
 
here we go again....
I'd be curious to see what you can get out of LEDs (luxeon and the like) for shimmer lines when they are running simultaneously as the T5's. 8 lamp Tek only running 6 lamps with the other 2 reflectors loaded with high output LED's??
mike is right about the intensity and pricetag of 70w... for a few more bucks you can get with 150's.... any thoughts on going with 175 moguls? Those Hamilton 175x2 hoods seem like they could fit some T5 retros with some crafty sheetmetal work to fit 2 on each side of the MH lamps... the cost would probably be very close to 2x150 DE. Unfortunately you want your cake and want to eat it too...
good luck!
Jon
 
shimmer shimmer

shimmer shimmer

Shimmer Schwimer, its nothing to write home about! Unless your talking true shimmer lines from the sun or natural lighting ie: solar tubes, etc.... otherwise its bs. My last setup was 3 150hqi Phoniex 150de's over my 55g, nothing but heat and bs coloration and coral growth. I find much better coloration with my t5's as they are now a 8 bulb tek 5 fixture. I will say this, I had the best growth and coloration when I had my 150DE phoniex over my 15g, that was wonderful, I bought a brown monti and it literally became pink/purple in a few months time, was amazing to see, it glowed pink/pruple when the lights went off, but I dont have the patience or the money to blow on a 400 watt or double 250 watt mh setup, when the t5's are just as bright with less heat.

David
 
so far the "concerns" of this set-up have already been addressed, but ill try and be much more consice and clearer here.

why not 150's: dont want the heat, energy costs, and high contrast shimmer lines.

shimmer not a big deal: thats subjective, and like i said, i like it, just on a subdued level like a swimming pool. where the shimmer is large and mellow like in a lagoon (due to wave size and light intensity).

go with more watts, the cost is the same as other options: this is truly illogical. in reality, what does it matter what it costs if i can achieve what i want. for example, if i wanted to get a boob job and i can get 36D's for $5,000 or 36FFFFFFFF's for the same, should i do it? or if i needed 1" screws, but home depot had 9" screws for the same price, should i then get the 9" to go into my 2x4 piece of wood?

unfortunately, i am also to blame for the mentality "more more more". i remember when i couldnt decide on a 3' or 4' tank and couldnt get past the fact that a 2' tek light costs the same as a 4' tek light, and i felt robbed of those precious watts.

but after a few months in this hobby, ive learned what euro reefers seem to have a long time ago. invision a set-up and buy the appropriate parts for it to be fruitfull. i have seen over $1,000 go to "nik naks" that are either small parts of the reef or perishable items. so its really silly to focus on a hundred here and there for the most important part of the reef, lighting.

so, in sumation, cost isnt truly a negative if i get what i want. ill take a nice set of D's over FFFF's anyday, even if they cost the same. im aware ill be paying more when i can get similar light output for the same price, but ill be getting the type of light i want to see.

nonetheless, my question remains unanswered:

"is there something i wouldnt be able to keep under this lighting"


nG
 
I've got a pair of 150de's and 2 x T5's over my 58 and think it's really nice. I plan on adding a single Actinic t5 later on so I can drop the Phoenix 14 k that I’m currently using to a 10k bulb.

I’ve had tanks set up with the current lighting setups

All VHO’s
2 x 175w 10k’s and 2 SA VHO’s
3 t5’s powered by Icecap
2 250w 14k DE’s and 2 t5’s
2 150w DE’s and 2 t5’s

And from my previous setups, I like the 175w 10ks with 2 SA VHO’s the best. The 250DE’s give off a bloody amount of heat. The VHO and T5 setups are good but I like the look MH’s add to the tank . The 150 w DE’s are ok , but if I had to do over again… I would have gone 175w SE’s over the tank.
 
Ng

Ng

but after a few months in this hobby, ive learned what euro reefers seem to have a long time ago. invision a set-up and buy the appropriate parts for it to be fruitfull.

Agreed completely I just feel MH is overrated, it's a necessary piece of equipment when you have a large tank anything over 300G, as there really isnt a subsitute for the intense lighting of 1000 or 400 watt mh lights. As far as smaller tanks go I've founf my t5's to give me the most bang for buck/headache ie: heat issues. I have the heat of mh it can be friggin killer, ever touch a mh bulb after its cooled down, and realised **** this thing is scalding hot? Yeah been there done that, plus got a nice uv burn in my eyes from my old de's with uv glass, so I will stick with my t5's they seem to suit my situtation well. I think for a tank from 55 to 180 or so they can be top notch, but your call.

A 70 watt mh wont do much except give you those nifty glitter lines.

cheers
David

p.s. btw Ng love your photog abilities, I have to pm you some time when I finally get my Nikon D50, right now just working on it.
 
hey ditch,

"70w wll only give me shimmer", thats the point :thumbsup:

thanks for the kinds words :D

feel free to send over any questions and ill help as much as i can.

your gonna love the d50, ive got a bunch o cams, and looking to get another dslr, and they are worth every cent. look into the d70, it may be worth the extra $100 for it.

and remember to get the new flash. nikons wireless flash system (i-ttl) is second to none when it comes to digital photography. you will get pro results with little to no knowledge. its pricey, but youll be able to shoot with the flash anywhere in the room and get very nice results. it will make for some nice and simple macro shots!

good luck
 
Nemo, in my oppinion, drop the 2x70w and run a single 175/150. It'll cost you much less to replace bulbs, you'll have better selection, and you'll still get your shimmer lines.
 
rich,

i guess you missed the whole "i have a center brace so cant go with single halide" and "cost is secondary to effect".

everyone is focusing on power and cost and missing the big picture.

1. i am looking for a certain effect without heat, energy consumption, and the bonus of flexibility.

2. the initial cost is about the same. and after, energy to use, energy to cool and even the bulbs themselves (about $50 less) all average out to be less or the same. so cost isnt a concern, effect is. in fact, since the halides will be used for effect, i will not need to replace them as often as the t5s will provide most of the lighting intensity.

3. bulb choices are not an issue either. all ill need is a nice bright 13k bulb and then the t5s will provide the rest of the color and intensity ill want/need.

is it me, or is everyone skipping completely reading the posts. in my intitial post, i spoke ad nauseum in order to keep the focus on the question "will i be able to keep anything under this lighting set-up?".

i could understand if my question was typical, but i went through great lenghts to try and keep the answers focued to what i thought was a unique set-up to no avail.

nonetheless, everyone keeps bringing up the same ideas that i already debunked in my initial post.


so here is a nice concise list of the ideas and debunking:

- go higher wattage: no, i dont want heat and high energy costs

- go single halide: no, i have a center brace, and want the ability to control two lowered powered lights. it is mostly for effect, as the dual 70w's will displace 2 t5's, and im sure they can match them. at least, no one has mentioned otherwise. i already tried a single 250w, and for the aforementioned reasons, want to try something else.

- forget halide and do all t5's: no, i want my cake and i WILL eat it too :D. or at least im going to try :confused:.

so, hows this for a clearer question:

how many t5's are comparable to dual 70w halides?
 
I am afraid I cannot quantitatively answer your question. However, I can tell you, in short, that yes you can keep sps in that situation. Most, if not all, would do very well so long as everything else is kept in check. Secondly, as far as the effect on color goes, I cannot answer that. As you are most likely aware of, many factors go into something like that. I think, given good water quality, you will not have many complaints as far as coral condition, health, color, etc.
 
NG

NG

It's sometimes like talking to the wall isn't it? lol We reefkeepers have been condition to speak in terms like AEFW, MH, SPS, Nitrates .. what?? lol We don't understand complex problems outside of how much will it cost and how much more watts can I throw at this sucker before cooking my tank. Your hitting us all upside the head with a little more pinoche type question, your concerned about effect and the look of your lighting...oh my! lol

I think you will find like I mentioned a single or even a dual 70 watt mh will do nothing on a fairly good sized tank ie: 50g or better, especially if its like mine not standard size but a high tank.
I think and again I'm beating my T5 drum here loud like some derranged back up band for James Brown, but T5's will give you much more par, a 2ft or 3ft 6 or 8 bulb combo would be best, now if you made the fixture from sexy icecap reflectors and an nice icecap 660 then well s*it my n*gga that's all you had to say! If you wanted to throw your nifty little 70 wat mh to just give the glitter and raise the heat why not lol but I suggest losing the glitter lines concept lol

cheers
David:rollface:
 
My guess is you will have enough intensity to keep just about anything you want provided you go with good ballast and lamp choices.

I would use pair of aquablues(11K) for inner overdiven on IC 660 and a pair of Act.+ for outer on workhorse 5. JMO.

Sounds like a nice set-up.
 
I think that with those lights you could keep anything that you would like. However, definitely keep the more light demanding corals (Acropora) in the top 1/3 of the tank. I am not sure how well you would do with clams as they like to be on the sand and are in need of a good amount of light.

Sounds like an interesting set up though. Good luck.

Jimmy
 
is overdriving the t5's necessary?

i was hoping the triad ballasts and tek reflectors running a pair of aquablues and a pair if blue plus would provide enough light in combination with a pair of 70w ushios to grow anything i wanted, at least for the first 0 - 16" of the tank.

its funny, when i was thinking about a 6 or 8 bulb tek almost 90% of the replies stated "it would be too much light". so now, i figured id swap out 4 t5s (156w) with a pair of 70w halides (140w) and now 90% of the replies are "its not enough light"

in the imortal words of cliff claven, "whats up with that?"

my reasons for the t5 to halide swap are:
- subdued shimmer
- higher intensity focused in two centered areas
- lower intensity in surrounding areas

i figured this would give me the best of both worlds:
- shimmer with less heat
- great par with different areas of intensity

wish i had the bucks to try a whole bunch o set-ups. i dont, so i have to make sure that ever i decide will do what i want (not what someone else wants :D)

ive already tried a maristar, and prefer to go in a different direction. although if maintenance costs and heat werent an issue, it would be one hell of a light.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7672211#post7672211 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nemo g
is overdriving the t5's necessary?


No not really, but I believe that you will find that anyone keeping stony corals under T5's is overdriving them on a VHO ballast to get enough punch out of them to keep the stony corals.
 
jjj, remember, ill have a pair of 70w halides with the t5s. that should easily be more than enough to compensate for not overdriving them, no?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7672217#post7672217 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jjjimmy
No not really, but I believe that you will find that anyone keeping stony corals under T5's is overdriving them on a VHO ballast to get enough punch out of them to keep the stony corals.

Plenty of people are keeping SPS under non overdriven T5s. The vast majority of T5 users dont overdrive.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7672291#post7672291 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
Plenty of people are keeping SPS under non overdriven T5s. The vast majority of T5 users dont overdrive.

OK, sorry bout the mis info. Maybe it is just the ones that I have chatted with.
 
I am trying to understand the low budget approach to reefkeeping (which BTW I am not sure if that is what you are trying to do or not) but when I try to answer these questions I don't think that many people understand that I am the one running (6) 250 watters and 440 watts of VHO on my 180 and (2) 1/2 HP chillers to keep it in check.

Once again I apologize if I gave bad info, it was not intentional.
 
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